Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications • Hacker News Board

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#301

Post by fsflover » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:19 PM UTC

yonatan8070 wrote: post #298

loughnane wrote: post #284

I know Pinephone isn't ready for daily use from all the threads here, but I just ordered one to get some stick time with it. Getting real tired of having to fight my phone to keep my data mine. I just want the equivalent of debian, but on mobile. I understand I'll have to give up a bunch of apps, but honestly I think its worth it. As soon as its possible I'd like off this ride.

Does Waydroid work well on mobile Linux GUIs like Phosh and Plasma Mobile? If it does it could be real handy to sandbox some Android apps you need for work or whatever while still using a proper Linux base

Generally, it depends on the app. Mostly works fine for me. More info: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Softwa...

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#302

Post by forward1 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

Podgajski wrote: post #228

Now we know why Apple and Google are a duopoly…. You get the illusion of choice but you get the same government spying on you in either case.

It is ultimately ignorant to think one is not spied upon in daily comings and goings, when the entire human economy is based on data and the study of it (especially at scale), whether by government, private enterprise or sole evil individual.

With Apple/Google you get the comfortable padded jail cell with 24/7 guards to protect - and monitor you; the digital equivalent of having a police officer live with you. You can't go outside of the walled garden and you're told this is for good reason.

Without them, you're totally on your own; you better be prepared and know how to defend yourself. No one will care about your security and privacy. But don't for a second think you're not still under the all-seeing eye of panopticon surveillance, and possibly additional scrutiny therein.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#303

Post by TheRealDunkirk » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:22 PM UTC

It's crazy to me that so much effort is being expended pretending that companies and the government are doing anything in the name of privacy, when we have all the proof by Assange and Snowden that they're doing realtime surveillance of ALL communications, 24x7 -- no matter what any laws say -- and we don't even talk about it any more. What's the point of any of this? All we can do is assume that our every position, purchase, and electronic communication is being tracked and saved, and act accordingly. The Constitution no longer matters, and there's no one coming to save us.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#304

Post by QuarterReptile » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

loughnane wrote: post #292

It'd be cool if Signal and other privacy-focused apps added an option to delay push notifications. That would obfuscate the connection between two accounts. Its a band-aid, but its something.

once upon a time, I had an app that limited network connection for the whole phone to 30 minute refreshes. It was a pretty cool trick.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#305

Post by omginternets » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

withinboredom wrote: post #162

omginternets wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting point in Glenn Greenwald’s book is that metadata is often more informative than the “real” data. Consider: 1. A phone call in which Mrs. Smith talks to a receptionist to set an appointment with a doctor for 9:30 next Wednesday. Vs. 2. Knowing that Mrs. Smith called an abortion clinic. #2 seems like a bigger violation of privacy. Metadata is the real data.

God forbid if you are just going on a date with someone who works at an abortion clinic.

Yeah, false positives are a doozy, and I don't see many guardrails in place to prevent the intelligence community from acting upon them :/

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#306

Post by robbiet480 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

We at the Home Assistant Companion for iOS team have been wanting to implement end to end encryption for our push notifications for a while now but Apple has denied our request for the com.apple.developer.usernotifications.filtering [0] entitlement multiple times. Wondering if with today's news we could apply again and get it.

For context, we are sending ~35 million push notifications per month on iOS and ~67 million on Android, see more at [1]

[0]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/en...

[1]: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1721717002946191480.html

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#307

Post by uoaei » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:25 PM UTC

loughnane wrote: post #284

I know Pinephone isn't ready for daily use from all the threads here, but I just ordered one to get some stick time with it. Getting real tired of having to fight my phone to keep my data mine. I just want the equivalent of debian, but on mobile. I understand I'll have to give up a bunch of apps, but honestly I think its worth it. As soon as its possible I'd like off this ride.

I'm sure you did your research. I'm writing for other readers who are interested.

There are a few alternatives, more can be found but this is a selection of the most prominent offerings.

/e/OS: https://e.foundation/e-os/

GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/

LineageOS: https://lineageos.org/

CalyxOS: https://calyxos.org/

PostmarketOS (based on Alpine Linux rather than Android, and what's used in Pinephones): https://postmarketos.org/ (for some reason the site is currently down)

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#308

Post by I_Am_Nous » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

g-b-r wrote: post #293

I_Am_Nous wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's just a case of facing reality. The internet is built by other people and we have to trust (or not) that they are going to honor the responsibility that entails, from security to ethics. The internet is also funded by learning as much as possible about users in general so using the internet is accepting that you will be tracked. Increasing personal security is good, but no silver bullet.

If with that you mean that users should be aware of the risks ok, if that they should accept them as inevitable no. What's funded by tracking as much as possible is the current perverse part of internet, it definitely wasn't always like that and doesn't need to be. I hope that that perspective comes from someone that hasn't lived anything before Facebook.

I'm not saying things shouldn't change, just that the reality we live in right now is that using the internet means you are tracked. Of course we shouldn't just accept that and not push back, and of course we should build things like the internet we had before social media "became the internet".

Being aware of the tracking and risks means people can make efforts to reduce the tracking, but it's almost becoming impossible to use the internet if you don't AGREE to the tracking in many cases, such as websites that won't risk GDPR violations and chooses to deny access to people blocking cookies entirely.

People who remember the old internet want it back, people who grew up with social media don't know what they're missing, and there's not much we can do to convince people to care about changing the DNA of the internet so that it's no longer perversely gobbling up all data.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#309

Post by selimthegrim » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #261

ericmay wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it matter if they are democracies or not? Why would it matter if they "do intel business" with the US, EU, UK, etc. ?

Because that's what the source said they are.

Pakistan?

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#310

Post by Nifty3929 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #303

It's crazy to me that so much effort is being expended pretending that companies and the government are doing anything in the name of privacy, when we have all the proof by Assange and Snowden that they're doing realtime surveillance of ALL communications, 24x7 -- no matter what any laws say -- and we don't even talk about it any more. What's the point of any of this? All we can do is assume that our every position,…

I think where we go wrong is to allow the conversation to revolve around what evil corporations are doing with our information, rather than what the evil government is doing with it. I believe the risk to our freedom is much greater from the latter. Of course governments can extract the information from corporations that have it, but let's keep the spotlight on the government itself, and use THAT as a reason to give corps less information about us.

Corporations showing me better-targeted ads is the least of my troubles.