Live data from Hacker News

Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

reuters.com

221–230 of 649 posts

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#221
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you require all your allies to be perfect people... ... you won't be left with many allies.

You can literally use this to excuse any behavior

True, but you can also refuse to excuse any behavior, nor give even an inch, and then look around after a while and realize you've won the wrong contest. You won the never giving an inch and remaining morally unblemished contest, and lost the making allies and getting anything done contest.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#222
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like "or (insert country that shouldn't be doing something according to its own laws) to (do something against its own laws) for the purposes of (someone's profit)".

Sure and that applies (at least) to the EU (and friends), US, UK, China, Russia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, India, etc.

Yeah but a lot of those are not democracies, nor do much business at intel level with the US.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#223

This, to me, is the more disturbing part of the article: > In this case, the federal government prohibited us from sharing any information," the company said in a statement. "Now that this method has become public we are updating our transparency reporting to detail these kinds of requests. What is the point of transparency reports if they don't include major vectors of government surveillance? IMO such gag orders sh…

Seems like a pretty open and shut case of unconstitutional restriction of speech in the US. Especially when you consider the wording of the Apple communication saying that they can talk about it openly now that it's public knowledge.

Free speech: are you saying it is guaranteed for companies?

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#224
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you prefer elected bureacrats with guns? That scares me more. Perhaps we just go with rock solid transparency laws...

At least elected bureaucrats are theoretically accountable to the electorate. The gripe comes from things like the unelected bureaucrats at the US Department of Justice deciding that as part of implementing the Americans with Disabilities Act, there are only two limited and inadequate questions you can ask of someone with an apparently bogus service dog or else . That rule didn't come from the people who wrote the la…

Those unelected bureaucrats play by the rules set by elected bureaucrats, though.

> That rule didn't come from the people who wrote the law.

But lawmakers can write a law to address that.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#225
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mention metadata in the article. Imagine sending a message to a Signal account at time X, then asking Apple a list of all users that received a Signal notification at that specific time.

That doesn't make sense. I would expect Signal notifications to happen completely out-of-band with "normal" push notifications (e.g. NYT news alert). Otherwise that completely defeats the purpose of the service. Basically you're saying Apple/Google are MITM'ing Signal.

no, that's not basically it. MITM to me means being able to read the data by placing yourself in the encrypted chain. that's not how push notifications work. they don't need to know the contents of the message

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#226
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvotes are possibly because the unelected bureaucrats with guns are overseen by the elected Executive and Legislature.

Are they though? How about the FDA getting most of its funding by the companies they are supposed to regulate? It's comforting to just trust that bureaucracies are doing what's good for the country, but also naive. https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/e4a791060... How about the NSA spying on congress? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/04/nsa-spying-ber... How about the ATF making up laws? https…

> The only teeth congress has with these bureaucracies is the power of the purse.

Not true. Congress can make laws defining what those agencies are and are not allowed to do.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#227
post #17

Unifiedpush to save the day! And an XMPP server with Conversations can be the basis for it: Https://unifiedpush.org/users/distributors/conversations/

You do _not_ need push notifications in the first place. Most definitely not for messaging programs anyway. The "saves battery" arguments are always very fluffy and devices/clients who don't do push notifications (or at least don't force you to) sometimes even have better battery life than devices/clients which do.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#229
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you require all your allies to be perfect people... ... you won't be left with many allies.

You can literally use this to excuse any behavior

True, which is why it must be balanced with realistic judgements about the people you support and knowing what issues are truly important compared to what the current buzz is telling us is important.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they though? How about the FDA getting most of its funding by the companies they are supposed to regulate? It's comforting to just trust that bureaucracies are doing what's good for the country, but also naive. https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/e4a791060... How about the NSA spying on congress? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/04/nsa-spying-ber... How about the ATF making up laws? https…

> The only teeth congress has with these bureaucracies is the power of the purse. Not true. Congress can make laws defining what those agencies are and are not allowed to do.

And if the agencies go outside the bounds of those laws like some currently do?
Post reply on HN