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Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

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Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#131

Post by FirmwareBurner »

mathverse wrote: post #85
p_l wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also what's crippling progress in many places in Eastern Europe. Depressed wages and fighting on price only to be assembly plant for higher-tech components does not let you build local prosperity, it makes you fungible cheap labour.

It's a chicken and egg problem. EE never had its technocrats like Taiwan or South Korea but a bunch of populist thieves with lack of vision. EE is full of entitled elderly pensioners that control the narrative and are only interested in returning to the "good old times of communism" in one way or another. Prosperity requires stepping out of your comfort zone and implement ideas that bring competitive advantage over y…

>EE never had its technocrats like Taiwan or South Korea

Because also the political and education system in communism couldn't create any visionary technocrats focused on innovation and exports.

It simply encouraged cronyism, lying, backstabbing, empire building, fiefdoms and thievery from the same zero-sum pie aka the local national economy.

Well educated and innovative workers from Taiwan or South Korea weren't sent to the gulags or political prisons for "free thinking" or for coming from the wrong family backgrounds.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#132

Post by [deleted] »

yreg wrote: post #61
epolanski wrote: post #12

From what I understand the strikers aren't asking for more money or anything specific other than Tesla to honor collective bargaining with unions Tesla cannot have different deals with different shops, has to respect what it agrees with unions.

From what I understand only a small portion of Tesla workers are on strike. It's mostly union members working at other companies and institutions who are striking. E.g. the postal office workers refused to deliver Tesla's mail which is baffling to me.

[deleted]

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#134

Post by pavlov »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #94
kristofferR wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are effectively saying: "It is crazy that they have an effective mechanism for ensuring good working conditions in their societies"

That's a very narrow view of the situation. It's not up for a small group of individuals to decide that for the whole society. Say they decide tmrw to not accept shipments from Israel. Why should a dock worker have disproportionate say in that?

Israel is not a party in the Swedish labor market. Tesla is.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#136

Post by shzhdbi09gv8ioi »

kristofferR wrote: post #91
contrarian1234 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief

That's nothing, whole genders have striked before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Icelandic_women%27s_strik...

In Sweden in 1979, a number of people called in sick for "being gay", to protest that homosexuality was still classified as a disease. After that, an activist occupation of the National Board of Health and Welfare's headquarters began. Within a few months, Sweden became one of the first countries in the world to declassify homosexuality as a disease.

Elmo need to start paying attention.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#137

Post by contrarian1234 »

jplrssn wrote: post #130
contrarian1234 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very narrow view of the situation. It's not up for a small group of individuals to decide that for the whole society. Say they decide tmrw to not accept shipments from Israel. Why should a dock worker have disproportionate say in that?

I'm not familiar with Norwegian labour law, but if it's anything like the Swedish equivalent there are narrowly defined rules about when you can and can't engage in solidarity action. It's only permissible in response to an active dispute and refusing to unload all shipments from Israel definitely wouldn't qualify.

Thanks for the clarification! Super interesting. I'm curious about how it works. Do they have to actually be on strike? B/c it sounds like in this scenario they don't loose/risk anything (wages/employment). Can the employees be fired for not doing their jobs?

Can the police union also refuse to protect Tesla property/workers? Or like the public transit union? Where do they draw the line in Sweden?

I've never heard of a system where workers can so selectively decide who to target. I've only heard of the "not go into work" type of strikes

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#138

Post by scythe »

marricks wrote: post #40
andsoitis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. Highly recommend watching the full interview that Andrew Ross Sorkin did with Elon Musk (it is the one where he told advert…

MANY things he does are explicitly to be liked. That’s why he posts all the time, goes on interviews, shows up on SNL. Buys a social media company then burns company hours on figuring out why he isn’t the most viewed person on it. He really, really, wants to be internet liked, that’s he claims he doesn’t care about.

I think that his political bloviating (to put it mildly) is best explained by Matt Levine's theory, that he wants to expand Tesla's appeal to conservatives. Getting plugged by Ramaswamy at the last Republican debate to cheers from the audience suggests it isn't the worst strategy. But Tesla's core product will still have issues with this segment, because conservatives are particularly suspicious of heavily computerized cars.

However, putting Tesla directly into the political line of fire with the union fight seems more like a case of personal beliefs run amok. Many companies making cars in the United States run non-union shops, including most of the Japanese ones. Their behavior abroad doesn't usually create a problem. But the more that Tesla itself is positioned as a political entity, rather than a car company that happens to have a conservative CEO (which didn't kill Taco Bell), the more he invites the kind of backlash that could really hurt. European regulators watching him scorn their beliefs may take that into account, fairly or not, if they are called on to mediate this union dispute. It seems like a very risky overextension.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#140

Post by andsoitis »

davidw wrote: post #99
cultureswitch wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liked by certain interest groups and not others. Despite really disliking Elon as a whole, one thing I like about him is that he expresses himself like a human being, contrary to most of the HR/PR/D&I drones who claim he's an antisemite now.

> claim he's an antisemite We saw the tweets (it wasn't just the one) he boosted and agreed with. You can absolutely be a 'real' and authentic person without promoting that kind of garbage. I don't think I'm alone in having previously thought he was perhaps a bit eccentric, but involved in some cool stuff. I lost a lot of respect for him though.

It sounds like you've made up your mind that he is antisemitic, so this might be in vain, but see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38544345
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