Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

pythonafrica.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 423 posts

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#221

Post by em-bee »

jdiff wrote: post #213
em-bee wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because that would limit conferences in a lot of places. people everywhere should be able to hold their own conferences. the question is, should the PSF fund them? that should be answerable with a clear yes or no in a timely manner, and not like it happened. holding a conference named pycon requires permission from the PSF trademark workgroup. that permission has obviously been given. giving such a permission but the…

I don't disagree with any of this. People in those areas should be able to hold their own conferences, and should get questions on funding answered in a timely manner. The point I wanted to make was that there are valid reasons to not hold (or fund) a conference based on local laws.

right, but those reasons could have been considered when the permission to host an event called pycon was sought and given.

i'd like to assume that once i have permission to organize a pycon, then funding is a mere question of how much, and whether the expenses are appropriate, not whether it should be funded at all.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#222

Post by Longhanks »

Karellen wrote: post #203
Longhanks wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Can't you just... not? So, if someone attends with their partner, are you suggesting they "just... not" show any affection towards them while they're there? No hugging, no hand-holding, no pecks on the cheek? No resting a head on a shoulder? "Stating your sexual preference" is more nuanced that standing at passport control and blurting out "I'm gay!". Not stating it can involve changing the whole way you behave aro…

> So, if someone attends with their partner, are you suggesting they "just... not" show any affection towards them while they're there? No hugging, no hand-holding, no pecks on the cheek? No resting a head on a shoulder?

Yes, I expect that absolutely. We also expect that behavior from students in high school during class. There's a time and place for things, and attending a conference in a country where such things are considered illegal is neither.

> That kind of assumes that the hosts rules are at least somewhat fair. If straight people can act naturally around their partners, but people with other sexual preferences have to police all their normal behaviours all the time, lest they are impolite enough to break the hosts rules, should those rules really be considered worthy of respect?

I am terribly sorry and I get how you feel and yes, this is unfair, but those are the rules made by the country. If a software conference is the hill you want to die on for your values, I respect that, but please also respect that most people just don't care or are fine with respecting the rules, so the conference can take place with or without you. And no, there is no magic country that has no unfairness towards any group, there will always be groups that have it easier in some countries than in others, so in my opinion it's fair to conduct conferences in different countries. There will never be 100% fairness in the world.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#223

Post by pradn »

jzb wrote: post #186
JonAtkinson wrote: post #80

Some thoughts on this from my perspective as a white, European, who was graciously invited to speak at DjangoCon Africa. I am not involved at all with the PSF, but my company has given the PSF money in the past. I think that I could sense the slight uncertainty about the conference, and the post above had made plain why. Considering what more could have been done if that uncertainty was resolved more quickly, the PSF…

What strikes me most about this is that, apparently by the timeline described in the open letter, the conference organizers planned the event with the expectation they'd get funding and asked for the funding fewer than five months before the event. That seems like extremely poor planning from my perspective. Maybe that's normal for events given money by PSF, I dunno, but "we've already decided to do this so hurry up…

I don’t see why it would take more than one PSF board meeting to approve funding for an event. Even if the board had questions, the follow-up is supposed to happen quickly. Several months to approve $9000 is silly. That’s probably just the catering budget for a 3-day, 200-person conference in the Bay Area - let alone for a conference for all of Africa’s Python community.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#224

Post by jdiff »

em-bee wrote: post #221
jdiff wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with any of this. People in those areas should be able to hold their own conferences, and should get questions on funding answered in a timely manner. The point I wanted to make was that there are valid reasons to not hold (or fund) a conference based on local laws.

right, but those reasons could have been considered when the permission to host an event called pycon was sought and given. i'd like to assume that once i have permission to organize a pycon, then funding is a mere question of how much, and whether the expenses are appropriate, not whether it should be funded at all.

I don't disagree. Communication is important and allowing use of the name but withholding funding, unless something was communicated beforehand, sends mixed messages.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#225

Post by doix »

IAmLiterallyAB wrote: post #206
mrweasel wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the map of the "LGBT rights by country or territory"[0] it is also not clear to me where people would suggest that the conferences be held. Zanzibar seems like one of the few places that would work, along with Botswana, and a few others. Some of the other countries that might work have completely different safety issue, regardless of your sexual orientation. I think realistically, someone has the well mean…

Based on that map, South Africa would seem to be the best choice

South Africa is great except they have rolling blackouts(load shedding) and can be somewhat unsafe. Don't get me wrong, I was there for 3 months and didn't experience any problems, except one time when I was parking at an almost empty beach and my car didn't lock when I pushed the button on the remote. But I could definitely see a bunch of less savvy folks coming in with a bunch of apple goods, flashing them openly in the wrong place and something bad happening.

The rolling blackouts would also probably be pretty annoying though.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#226

Post by n6h6 »

em-bee wrote: post #192
isodev wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe accept that when you’re organising a global event, you need to be able to provide a safe space keeping in mind that you’re hosting guests that don’t necessarily embrace your “way of life”.

no conference organizer can provide a safe space from the law. the only really safe option is to not go there.

Yes, that's indeed the point being made.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#227

Post by asylteltine »

Longhanks wrote: post #165
ttyprintk wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s about this statement: > no one is going to ask your sexual orientation at the airport This is not ensured, even if the Tanzanian people are themselves renown for their hospitality.

And if a stranger asks you "have you ever consumed any drugs" you also just cannot help it and make a list of any and all abuse you might have participated in at the other end of the world? Is reality really that hard for some people? I geniunely don't understand how navigating society can be so difficult?

Some people are so used to their western privilege they can’t fathom the idea of a culture not accepting things like being gay. It’s really not hard

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#228

Post by brodouevencode »

kabanda1 wrote: post #96

My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences. About LBGTQ This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here…

The posturing over sexual preference is completely a passive aggressive white western phenomenon whose proponents insist on projecting to other groups whether they are willing to accept the dogma or not or whether they care or not, but simultaneously exclaim the evils of colonialism while not saying a word about your country in public because you're not white. There's an image they have to uphold.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#229

Post by sampo »

jzb wrote: post #186
JonAtkinson wrote: post #80

Some thoughts on this from my perspective as a white, European, who was graciously invited to speak at DjangoCon Africa. I am not involved at all with the PSF, but my company has given the PSF money in the past. I think that I could sense the slight uncertainty about the conference, and the post above had made plain why. Considering what more could have been done if that uncertainty was resolved more quickly, the PSF…

What strikes me most about this is that, apparently by the timeline described in the open letter, the conference organizers planned the event with the expectation they'd get funding and asked for the funding fewer than five months before the event. That seems like extremely poor planning from my perspective. Maybe that's normal for events given money by PSF, I dunno, but "we've already decided to do this so hurry up…

> asked for the funding fewer than five months before the event

The Python Software Foundation says that they need less than 6 weeks for processing grant applications:

https://www.python.org/psf/grants/

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#230

Post by bitcurious »

kabanda1 wrote: post #96

My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences. About LBGTQ This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here…

> FYI, Most people here have no idea what LGBTQ means and those who do don't give a damn. Those leading the making of laws and noise making are just populists after their bread.

How do you reconcile these two statements? Populists by definition appeal to public sentiment, to the detriment of principals or morality. If no one cares, why are they wasting their time?

It's like the old joke "no one goes there, it's too crowded."

Post reply on HN