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An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

pythonafrica.blogspot.com

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#171

Post by ttyprintk »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #129
mmtml wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point was not properly made on their behalf. That said, do the organizers of the conference have any saying on the politics on their country and actually deserve to be punished because of them? I don't really think so.

Indeed. Would the PSF deny funds to an event in the USA due to Trump's Muslim ban? How about if a country has a big pro-Israel or anti-Israel protest that the PSF doesn't like -- is that a legitimate reason to deny funds for events in that country? An event like DjangoCon in Tanzania is most likely going to be a tiny step forward for LGBT rights there. The organizers are probably more liberal than the average Tanzani…

Great point, but it might be safest to meet virtually.

The board is accountable for relating their mission statement to their budget. The highest bang for their buck might not be an on-prem conference.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#172

Post by vivekd »

zartusht wrote: post #124
kabanda1 wrote: post #96

My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences. About LBGTQ This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here…

[flagged]

That was my initial reaction, I mean was the PSF going to stop sponsoring all conferences in America when Trump won because they think building the wall makes Latino's feel unsafe? Singling out African nations like this does reek of colonial style paternalism

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#173

Post by dual_dingo »

biorach wrote: post #158
dual_dingo wrote: post #128

Maybe it's my experience from working in grant driven academia, but applying for a grant 4 months before you need the money and then complaining because it took three short months to get a decision is ridiculous. Applying later than a year in advance is too late.

This is not grant driven acedemia. This is the PSF, not encumbered with layers of beurocracy, audits and regulation. An expectation of a turn round time of a few weeks is entirely reasonable

Apparently, the two decision making bodies in the PSF for this matter have once-a-month meetings. This means any problem or missing information or whatever will delay the process for at least a month. So, maybe not a year, but 6-9 months would be a comfortable timeframe. I stand by it: 4 months before the event is WAY too late, and even with a slim organization, 3 months to get a decision is an absolutely reasonable time.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#174

Post by dijit »

lozenge wrote: post #151
_cenw wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're still not the same thing. TSA and Israeli customs might suck, but at worst you get turned around. You manage to get past, let's say, Saudi customs as a trans person, get ready for jail time for the crime of existing. Not comparable.

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#175

Post by hobofan »

DeathArrow wrote: post #114
Xeamek wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>software should not be tied to politics. Why not? I mean, software is a product like any other. I for example wouldn't like if a group like ISIS was using my software, especially if they were using it to actively help them in commiting their crimes. If I could prevent that from happening, why shouldn't I?

>Why not You have the right to hold you own political views, however you don't have the right to impose those on users of a particular software or participants in a software conference.

A sponsor/steward of the conference like the PSF certainly can ask for their Code of Conduct to be enforced in exchange for sponsorship. If what is in the Code of Conduct does not suite you, go find a different sponsor.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#176

Post by melagonster »

_lvbh wrote: post #166
melagonster wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You know very well that coders are among the most reserved people on earth. Do not free/open source software activity or geek culture feel like more close to leftwing? p.s., this comment doesn't try to refute you.

I think they meant reserved as in introverted rather than conservative.

this make sense, my fault haha.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#177

Post by Atlas667 »

This thread is pretty wild. It's interesting to see north-western racism and african homophobic laws exposed like this.

I don't think it should have been an issue and PSF should have been clear about the reason behind their delay.

Nobody intimately studies a countries law when sponsoring events in said country, they judge based on general knowledge and vibes, which is what makes this iffy and biased.

Else most countries would be in the spotlight as nation states don't generally do whats good for their population, they instead obey "national interests" which in capitalist societies is the capitalist class' private profit enterprise.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#178

Post by vfclists »

throwaway290 wrote: post #153
zartusht wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> No one is sanctioning Israel for ethnic cleansing, textbook settler colonialism and apartheid going on since 1948. Bad example since Jews are generally the ones who were getting cleansed. They were evicted by extreme Christians, then murdered by Nazi Germans (remember when US and Canada did not accept a shipful of Jews fleeing gas chambers so they had to go back and die?) and 1948 is when Arab League attacked the n…

You clearly don't seem to see the difference between the condition of Jews today both within the state of Israel and outside of it, and the treatment of Jews in Europe after the rise of Nazism in Germany and elsewhere.

And you know what? Africans had nothing to do with it

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#179

Post by _cenw »

kabanda1 wrote: post #164
_cenw wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. If your policies put people at risk, limit to participation is a natural consequence. There is no conspiracy here. >I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here have no idea what LGBTQ means and those…

I am not asking anyone to be invisible. I am just saying we need to go back to reality and see things the way they are supposed to be. How long ago were the LGBTQ people also at risk in the Western world? I understand organisations like PSF have their codes to abide by and safety of attendees is and should be a priority. But if your main mission is to promote python in the whole world. It's not impossible to issue an…

Oh, you're definitely asking that.

supposed to be, right, let's stop talking about this before I violate the unwritten rule of good tone trumps everything on HN.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#180

Post by em-bee »

ploum wrote: post #163
_cenw wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. If your policies put people at risk, limit to participation is a natural consequence. There is no conspiracy here. >I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here have no idea what LGBTQ means and those…

You are perfectly right that asking people to not care about the laws of a country is problematic. For personal safety and also as a moral stand point. But that should not be a reason to not fund conferences in those countries, conferences which are a way to learn, to discover new things. What do you think about conferences organizers, of every country, having to put on their website a little explanation of the laws…

even mentioning politically sensitive topics is not risk free in some places.

expecting this from every conference could potentially put conference organizers at risk for criticizing their local laws or culture.

at best this information can be shared by global institutions. so the PSF could issue their funding accompanied by such a statement

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