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An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

pythonafrica.blogspot.com

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#71

Post by johannes1234321 »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #50
godzillabrennus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a naive statement. People die in large numbers because of horrible governments. Software conferences should be restricted because of politics.

Political pluralism should be the default. When an "us vs them" mentality is embedded in every aspect of society, those are the conditions that lead to horrible governments arising. It becomes more about protecting/promoting the "us" and screwing over the "them" than running a functional fair government.

The question is where you draw the line. Day to day politics probably shouldn't be the focus of such an org.

However care for human rights (maybe based around the UN's human rights charta or the European Charta on Human rights) might be a worthwhile foundation.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#72

Post by arp242 »

darkerside wrote: post #59
DeathArrow wrote: post #48

Well, why can't the local developers organize a conference without Python Software Foundation blessing?

They can. They feel entitled to funding. Rightly or wrongly, I don't know.

In my reading I think they first and foremost felt entitled to a clear answer.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#73

Post by hardlianotion »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #33

I wonder if part of the solution here is to request the grant and only start planning the event if the grant gets approved or denied? In any case, I would say the PSF should have a presumption towards supporting events in Africa, since their money will go farther there, and presumably will do more to nurture the nascent Python community in Africa (vs Python communities elsewhere in the world which are already well-es…

The solution here is to be open about decision criteria and to make decisions in a timely basis.

PSF would be acting in its own best interests to adopt a more professional approach to African community building - it’s not charity.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#74

Post by tbrake »

rainonmoon wrote: post #60
DeathArrow wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, software should not be tied to politics. People should be able to hold different political views while taking part in software conferences.

Software is intrinsically tied to politics. It is made to solve problems the priorities of which are arranged by political and ideological frameworks. It or its supporting infrastructure is often funded by political entities. It's written by people whose identities and freedoms are defined by their political context. You can't separate it from politics except in the case where your degree of privilege allows you to i…

The old "everything is politics if you really think about it" gambit, eh?

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#75

Post by paganel »

andrewstuart wrote: post #6

Why do “open letters” get so much more respect and attention than an ordinary whining email? The headline “A whining email to ” would be ignored. Change it to “open letter” and it’s instant gravitas. Seems to be the same sort of magic words as ”considered harmful”……. instantly credible and worthy of consideration. I really should frame all of my grumbles about the state of the world as “open letters” so people pay at…

Because putting "whining" in the title of such a genuine request would entrench the people ignoring it in the first place, they'll just say "these are not serious people! We were right in ignoring the request! Who in his/her right mind puts 'whining' in the title of a petition?".

As such, calling it an "open letter" might have bigger chances of success, even though (and judging by the responses of many of the people here), I don't think that those chances are that big to begin with.

Either way, shameful conduct by the PSF, I used to look up to them ~20 years ago when I started learning Python.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#76

Post by red_admiral »

keraf wrote: post #41
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

The claims of Zanzibar being unsafe for LGBTQIA+ communities is ridiculous. I live there and it's the most tolerant place I lived in so far. There are laws, but as long as you mind your own business and don't disturb others, you will be left alone. I've even been to same-sex weddings here (between foreigners of course, same-sex relationships are still taboo between locals but they do exist) and have gay friends livin…

There are various indexes of how LGBT+ friendly countries are. For example, equaldex lists Tanzania as rank 181 out of 197 countries (lower is better), with a total score of 12/100 (higher is better, best is Iceland at 92-100). They list their methodology and how their scores are computed, so if you want to present a factual counter-argument you are welcome to (I'm not an expert on the matter). But it seems to me that there is, prima facie, evidence for the claim that Tanzania is one of the least safe countries for LBGT+ people in the world.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#77

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

Ralfp wrote: post #69
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political pluralism should be the default. When an "us vs them" mentality is embedded in every aspect of society, those are the conditions that lead to horrible governments arising. It becomes more about protecting/promoting the "us" and screwing over the "them" than running a functional fair government.

Political pluralism is nice when you are discussing things like tax levels or investment targets, but a lot of "us vs them" arises from discussions like "I just want to exist in the open without prosecution" vs "your very existence is a problem and needs to be prevented".

I would argue that one of the most effective steps you can take in a situation like that is to establish pluralistic institutions where people get to know each other in person, as fellow human beings.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#78

Post by bhickey »

anticodon wrote: post #46
Xeamek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's literally how any 'anti-state' action works, ever. Does an individual Russian have a say in what Putin does in Ukraine? Probably not. But countries are a collection of its citizens. The only way to 'punish' a country is to punish its citizens. Sometimes it's more direct, other times less. But at the end of the day, any and all actions will trickle down to punishing individuals, because that's simply how action…

[flagged]

> invasion of Libya

The air campaign against Gaddafi was authorized by the UN Security Council with no votes against. While deposing a former client was a terrible idea, your question isn't a gotcha.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#79

Post by rob74 »

keraf wrote: post #41
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

The claims of Zanzibar being unsafe for LGBTQIA+ communities is ridiculous. I live there and it's the most tolerant place I lived in so far. There are laws, but as long as you mind your own business and don't disturb others, you will be left alone. I've even been to same-sex weddings here (between foreigners of course, same-sex relationships are still taboo between locals but they do exist) and have gay friends livin…

> There are laws, but as long as you mind your own business and don't disturb others, you will be left alone.

that's exactly what differentiates developed from developing countries: the rule of law. Not saying that it's perfect in developed countries (far from it), but at least you don't have to fear being arrested and face life imprisonment for something that's "generally tolerated", but in your special case wasn't because the police officer didn't like how you looked, or you didn't pay the customary bribe.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#80

Post by JonAtkinson »

Some thoughts on this from my perspective as a white, European, who was graciously invited to speak at DjangoCon Africa. I am not involved at all with the PSF, but my company has given the PSF money in the past.

I think that I could sense the slight uncertainty about the conference, and the post above had made plain why. Considering what more could have been done if that uncertainty was resolved more quickly, the PSF’s procrastination (which is a generous interpretation, a less generous interpretation could be “tactical stonewalling”) is very disappointing.

I generally supports PSF initiatives, I hope they will answer publicly and if necessary make commitments to improve their communications and processes. The PSF need to recognise the pent-up demand for support and financial aid outside of the Anglosphere. With good leadership they could make a huge contribution.

I appreciate the difficult situation that the organisers are now in: it takes courage to call out poor behaviour.

This doesn’t diminish the organisers or the event in any way: it was a huge success from my perspective as an attendee. DjangoCon Africa was the most invigorating conference experience I have had in years.

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