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An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

pythonafrica.blogspot.com

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#31

Post by saltwatercowboy »

anonylizard wrote: post #12
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

[flagged]

You aren't wrong. Tanzania != Malaysia, as another commenter seemed to think. Their version of Sharia is nowhere near as strict.

Incidents of violence are the product of opportunity and generally perpetrated through in-group policing. Westerners and other African travellers are less exposed, so in the case of an LGBT developer from the US travelling to Zanzibar (which is also a very special case relative to the rest of Tanzania) I doubt they'd be in any real danger unless they were publicly displaying unambiguous attraction to the same-sex. I know an openly gay couple living in Kinshasa, which is a much more dangerous environment.

This is a very cheap shot from PSF and a classic case of perfect defeating good.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#32

Post by bruce343434 »

gwd wrote: post #8
Takennickname wrote: post #3

It's a grant, not an entitlement.

Then say "no" quickly so that they can look for other funding. [EDIT] And be honest about the fact that Africans (or more charitably, countries that have particular laws or a particular pattern of enforcement) Need Not Apply.

>And be honest about the fact that Africans Need Not Apply

I have the hunch that that is what it came down to, a matter of public perception. Shunt africa, or shunt lgbt? Both "important minority identities" in the current zeitgeist of the western world. Probably no one wanted to touch that decision with a 10 ft pole.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#33

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

I wonder if part of the solution here is to request the grant and only start planning the event if the grant gets approved or denied?

In any case, I would say the PSF should have a presumption towards supporting events in Africa, since their money will go farther there, and presumably will do more to nurture the nascent Python community in Africa (vs Python communities elsewhere in the world which are already well-established). Just my 2c

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#34

Post by DeathArrow »

ayhanfuat wrote: post #24
andrepd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the whole context, that is not the point at all. The point is (1) that the Python event would be an effective safe space even in a context of LGBT persecution, and (2) that it's illegitimate and counterproductive to prevent such an event from happening just because it's located in a less than enlightened country. Both of those are valid.

What is an effective safe space other than saying "relax, generally nothing happens"? Are you guaranteeing their safety? Of course not. I live in a "less than enlightened" country and I do know when everything feels safe tiny little things can lead to catastrophic consequences. I experience it regularly. Effective means nothing.

>tiny little things can lead to catastrophic consequences

Do you mean things that are against the law?

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#35

Post by Xeamek »

DeathArrow wrote: post #30
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

At the same time, software should not be tied to politics. People should be able to hold different political views while taking part in software conferences.

>software should not be tied to politics.

Why not? I mean, software is a product like any other. I for example wouldn't like if a group like ISIS was using my software, especially if they were using it to actively help them in commiting their crimes. If I could prevent that from happening, why shouldn't I?

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#36

Post by godzillabrennus »

DeathArrow wrote: post #30
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

At the same time, software should not be tied to politics. People should be able to hold different political views while taking part in software conferences.

That’s a naive statement. People die in large numbers because of horrible governments. Software conferences should be restricted because of politics.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#37

Post by DeathArrow »

Xeamek wrote: post #29
anonylizard wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You don't need LGBT hunt squads. All you need is the fact that a gay couple holding hands or kissing publicly is unsafe. "Then just don't kiss publicly". Sure, hiding one's sexuality isn't that hard, especially for a short period of time. But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place. Home people might know you, but in home country you are against only bigoted individuals, not the en…

>But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place.

What does that have to do with Python? You can chose to respect the laws in the country you are in, or not.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#38

Post by ttyprintk »

anonylizard wrote: post #12
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

[flagged]

It’s safest where you know what to expect. Tanzania will likely deny you entry into the country if they suspect non-heterosexuality. Mature travelers who are part of a persecuted group know this, but younger people attending a computing conference need to learn this and it’s more important than the feelings in this open letter.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#39

Post by gpderetta »

DeathArrow wrote: post #30
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

At the same time, software should not be tied to politics. People should be able to hold different political views while taking part in software conferences.

On the other hand, people should be able to go to conferences without risking life imprisonment.

Politics should not overshadow the technical aim, but when you have three or more people, politics are inevitable.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#40

Post by Xeamek »

DeathArrow wrote: post #34
ayhanfuat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is an effective safe space other than saying "relax, generally nothing happens"? Are you guaranteeing their safety? Of course not. I live in a "less than enlightened" country and I do know when everything feels safe tiny little things can lead to catastrophic consequences. I experience it regularly. Effective means nothing.

>tiny little things can lead to catastrophic consequences Do you mean things that are against the law?

How does it matter?
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