Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#171

Post by standardUser » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

happyhardcore wrote: post #29

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its more a commentary on how amateur it is in my respectful view. iMessage is a fundamentally unserious "product" in search of enough collateral flaws to harm those foolish enough to depend on it for anything.

How so? Other than the security issues that get exploited by NSO group from time to time (that appear to be mitigated fairly well by lockdown mode if that's something that's important to you) or the obvious flaw that you can't talk to anyone that doesn't have an iPhone it seems to be a perfectly good platform. The alternatives either have worse encryption (Telegram, RCS), worse privacy (WhatsApp), or the same platfor…

> the obvious flaw that you can't talk to anyone that doesn't have an iPhone

That's because iMessage is a first and foremost a marketing tool that Apple compels users to rely on.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#172

Post by jpalawaga » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #155

jpalawaga wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is offered as a free service. If they would like to 'receive recompense', then they should simply charge people. Do we provide recompense to YCombinator for using hackernews?

I see your point, but please steer clear of personal attacks - you can make your substantive points without that.

sorry, it wasn't meant to be a personal attack. I'll edit it so that it reads less hostile.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#173

Post by itslennysfault » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

First... I want to say this is awesome and really really cool. I'm an android user and honestly don't care about blue bubble or iMessage features, but I know A LOT of people care a lot about it, and its really cool to see a solution that doesn't involve passing Apple credentials to some 3rd party service.

That said... I will be SHOCKED if Apple doesn't prevent this in some way in short order.

Could be through legal action (not a lawyer don't know if they have a leg to stand on)

Could be through technical means (pretty sure there are multiple ways they could break this)

...but regardless I highly doubt they will let this fly for long.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#174

Post by Obscurity4340 » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 5:59 PM UTC

modeless wrote: post #131

saagarjha wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but you can change yours, yes? Just like Signal isn’t installed by default on your phone and if you want what it offers you can use it.

But unless everyone you talk to also changes it then Apple still holds the keys to your conversations. If you care, it is best to avoid software with bad security defaults altogether.

Bingo

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#175

Post by rootusrootus » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 5:59 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #156

rootusrootus wrote: post #132

At this point, why not just wait for Apple to release their RCS implementation? The nicest thing about iMessage (for me, at least) has always been that it was a significant improvement to SMS that just worked, with graceful fallback to SMS for anyone who didn't use it. No installing third party apps, wondering if someone new I wanted to contact would be on that messaging app, etc. A nice bonus, but not something that…

WhatsApp, Telegram and many other platforms do everything that iMessage does and more, without the deliberate segregation of users on different platforms. In effect, you are using a third party app (as opposed to stock SMS), but Apple has integrated it into their OS and refused to release versions for other platforms.

So you're saying that if I install WhatsApp on my phone, I can text anyone I want, if I have their phone number? Doesn't matter if they have WhatsApp installed? I just say "send this to 5551212" and it gets there?

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#176

Post by pelletier » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 5:59 PM UTC

dadoum wrote: post #46

pelletier wrote: post #34

How does the generation of validation data for registration work? As far as I understand, this requires details from an actual Apple device (serial number, model, etc.)

I think it's calling a server generating validation data (probably with a pre-set hardware informations to be able to run it on a Linux machine which is cheaper, with emulation as pypush does it or by directly loading the macOS executable in the memory and run the right code snippets there).

I'm curious what are the implications of having pre-set hardware info. Maybe rate-limiting? or easier for Apple to flag those particular serial numbers to block the service if they wish?

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#177

Post by awat » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 5:59 PM UTC

Fortunately, I think this is going to be a forcing function for the RCS conversation.

Unfortunately, I'll be waiting for the data loss post coming in the near future. As some one who had to deal with a stuck iMessage validation with Apple support on a genuine iPhone a few years back this can get sticky.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#178

Post by cchance » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

HumblyTossed wrote: post #151

[flagged]

Its less about the color and more about the encryption + full res images and videos, and reactions working cleanly.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#179

Post by lukew3 » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

HumblyTossed wrote: post #151

[flagged]

Imo, the people who have an issue with green bubbles are mostly teenagers trying to fit in. Besides that, its also about how android users can't join imessage group chats, media sent between platforms over sms/mms is extremely degraded in quality, and facetime is a worthy apple service that android users don't get.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#180

Post by olliej » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

jpalawaga wrote: post #145

InTheArena wrote: post #113

Its awesome to reverse engineer this... but.. At the end of the day, this product is taking money for using Apple Services with no recompense to Apple. It won't last. Apple should have added an iMessage client to Android (and charged for it) long, long, long ago, but it doesn't change the ethics problem here. (This is the downside to the "just pay for it with hardware" model people always love rather than paying subs…

iMessage is offered as a free service. If they would like to 'receive recompense', then they should simply charge people. Do we provide recompense to YCombinator for using hackernews?

iMessage is not free though?

Apple's "free" services are all dependent on you having bought apple products. When you buy a device, the "profit" on the hardware (the oft reference BoM only cost) also pays for the software development, the services, etc.

Claiming that anyone should be able to use those services because they're "free" is like saying anyone should be able to get free service at Toyota garages because Toyota does free service for people who bought a Toyota vehicle.