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Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

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Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#91

Post by genman »

f6v wrote: post #85
genman wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything then this personal attack is an example of poor quality. I'm far being upset. Maybe you are? My comments try to explain why Ukrainians believe that Russians have stolen the "Rus" identity (from them) only for themselves. While your comment is not entirely wrong, it is not precise enough to explain the whole story.

> My comments try to explain why Ukrainians believe that Russians have stolen the "Rus" identity (from them) only for themselves. Which is completely irrelevant to the thread. And, let’s be honest, is of little interest to anyone. This cultural appropriation bullshit has gotten old a long time ago already.

It is completely relevant to the thread about Russia stealing Ukrainian "Rus" identity. This is not some European Americans dressing up like Native Americans "this is a cultural Appropriation" bullshit. This is the real thing where a national entity denies existence of another nation and is in process to genocide this nation while pretending to be historically the same nation they are attempting to genocide. Of course there are other forces in play, but this in one of the main themes from the very beginning. Of course it is more comfortable to downplay this by calling it old and irrelevant than do something about it.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#92

Post by f6v »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #88
f6v wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, now “it’s not so simple”. Come on, Rusyn is a very distinct cultural identity that’s much closer to Magyars than to Ukrainians.

Both me and the other poster in this thread have posted links on the overlap between Rusyn and Ukranian identities in Eastern Slovakia. The Magyar identity is centered around the Hungarian language and Roman Catholicism or Protestantism, while any history of the Rusyn people will emphasize how they are East Slavic-speaking Greek Catholics, so why you feel that the Magyars are relevant here is beyond me. Some of the R…

Rusyns in Ukraine do speak Hungarian though.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#93

Post by [deleted] »

genman wrote: post #65
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While what you say is true, it is irrelevant in the context of the discussion here about the popular misunderstanding of pierogi ruskie . This confusion is due to multiple factors than just “Russia stole”, including that the Ukrainian-language literary canon is centered around “Ukrainian” as the ethnonym, instead of making any attempt to preserve or revive the ethnonym “Rus”. While some Rusyns did maintain the ethnon…

And there is reason why they focus on "Ukrainian" (borderland etymologically btw) instead of "Russian" or even "Little Russian". The therm "Little Rus" was first used for Kyiv in sense of it being the center of Rus - Rus proper and "Greater Rus" meant the wider area of their influence. Russians (as we know them today) managed to turn this around and made it a derogatory term. Even more - the "Rus" became first to mea…

[deleted]

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#94

Post by yurish »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #63
genman wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no. "Rus" was meant to describe "all" East Slavic people, but Russians took it for themselves "only" and started to call Ukrainians "Little Russians" in sense of "Lesser Russians".

While what you say is true, it is irrelevant in the context of the discussion here about the popular misunderstanding of pierogi ruskie . This confusion is due to multiple factors than just “Russia stole”, including that the Ukrainian-language literary canon is centered around “Ukrainian” as the ethnonym, instead of making any attempt to preserve or revive the ethnonym “Rus”. While some Rusyns did maintain the ethnon…

It's not even true. Just a piece of modern Ukrainian propaganda.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#95

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

acadapter wrote: post #6
Tade0 wrote: post #3

There's an interesting shift in language associated with the Russian invasion of Ukraine - a type of pierogi which used to be called ruskie (from the region of Red Rus, where they originate) are now commonly named ukraińskie (Ukrainian) instead. The reason is that the adjective ruskie is typically understood as "Russian" in general parlance.

So it's basically a new version of the "Freedom Fries" mania, but with higher popularity?

It's different when we do it, you don't understand.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#96

Post by OfSanguineFire »

f6v wrote: post #92
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both me and the other poster in this thread have posted links on the overlap between Rusyn and Ukranian identities in Eastern Slovakia. The Magyar identity is centered around the Hungarian language and Roman Catholicism or Protestantism, while any history of the Rusyn people will emphasize how they are East Slavic-speaking Greek Catholics, so why you feel that the Magyars are relevant here is beyond me. Some of the R…

Rusyns in Ukraine do speak Hungarian though.

No, not to any significant extent. I speak Hungarian and have very frequently passed through that small part of Transcarpathia where Hungarian is still spoken, and I have rarely encountered an ethnic Slav who learned Hungarian to proficiency. The language of interethnic communication in Transcarpatia was generally Russian during the Soviet era, and even remained such into the post-Soviet era, though Ukrainian has naturally gained ground.

And again, most of the Rusyn population in Ukraine is living far enough to the north or northeast that they have no contact whatsoever with the Hungarian language. I don’t think you have any actual knowledge of this part of the world.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#97

Post by worklaptopacct »

sprior wrote: post #90

The big controversy in my house is that my Polish grandmother made pierogi with rolled edges and we ate them fried (the edges were my favorite part), but when I married a Polish woman who went to cooking school in Poland she insists that she's never heard of doing it that way and she does it the correct way. She'll now make a few with rolled edges for me, but most without.

I've seen them folded like that in restaurants, but the homemade ones are usually folded with a plain edge.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#98

Post by sebastiangula »

sprior wrote: post #90

The big controversy in my house is that my Polish grandmother made pierogi with rolled edges and we ate them fried (the edges were my favorite part), but when I married a Polish woman who went to cooking school in Poland she insists that she's never heard of doing it that way and she does it the correct way. She'll now make a few with rolled edges for me, but most without.

Haven’t heard about the rolled edges but fried ones are just perfect with sourcream.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#99

Post by delfinom »

sprior wrote: post #90

The big controversy in my house is that my Polish grandmother made pierogi with rolled edges and we ate them fried (the edges were my favorite part), but when I married a Polish woman who went to cooking school in Poland she insists that she's never heard of doing it that way and she does it the correct way. She'll now make a few with rolled edges for me, but most without.

Well, as someone who is Polish, there is a headache even I've had to deal with. There are people in Poland who have only lived in the cities and are oblivious to the regional and even rural takes on food. Especially because there's areas that straddle between Polish/Germany, Polish/Belarussian, Polish/Ukranian and so on historical influences

And by headaches I mean I would bring some polish dish to a company potluck, two crazed never-saw-cows-in-a-field types would rant how it isn't polish and the one old timer Pole would tell them to shutup as they haven't stepped one foot outside Warsaw before coming to the US.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#100

Post by mikrl »

Tade0 wrote: post #3

There's an interesting shift in language associated with the Russian invasion of Ukraine - a type of pierogi which used to be called ruskie (from the region of Red Rus, where they originate) are now commonly named ukraińskie (Ukrainian) instead. The reason is that the adjective ruskie is typically understood as "Russian" in general parlance.

>The reason is that the adjective ruskie is typically understood as "Russian" in general parlance

I’m not a native speaker, but I always heard that the Greek derived Rosyjski/Rosjanin/Rosjanka were for Russians (ie the ethnic majority in the Russian Federation) but Ruskie was still reserved for the Rus’ in general.

I’ve had native speaking members explain the distinction to me, that ruskie is more of a catch-all term for the Rus’ peoples. Then again, my family hails from northeast and southeast Poland near the borders with the Rus’.

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