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Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

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Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#81

Post by ajuc »

varispeed wrote: post #18
Tade0 wrote: post #3

There's an interesting shift in language associated with the Russian invasion of Ukraine - a type of pierogi which used to be called ruskie (from the region of Red Rus, where they originate) are now commonly named ukraińskie (Ukrainian) instead. The reason is that the adjective ruskie is typically understood as "Russian" in general parlance.

My friend told me "ruskie" is used as a somewhat pejorative description of a "Russian". Like Brits say "Yanks" about the Americans. The other issue is that people don't know how to translate "ruski" to English, so they would say "Russian dumplings", but in reality they should be called "Ruthenian dumplings" from Ruthenian Voivodeship. They probably seen tourists turn their nose on "Russian dumplings", so they renamed…

Ruskie is a plural adjective or a plural noun.

When it's used as a noun it's pejorative for Russian people. When it's used as an adjective - it's neutral (and can be used both for russian and ruthenian stuff).

There's also more specific words - rosyjskie for russian and rusińskie for ruthenian, but very few people use "rusińskie" nowadays.

BTW there's this joke from communist times:

A waitress in a milk bar shouts "who ordered ruskie", someone in the bar shouts back "nobody, they came on their own".

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#82

Post by ajuc »

jedrek wrote: post #39

I left Poland in 1983 and came back in 1992. Before we left, I had never had pierogi ruskie . If we had pierogi, they'd either be with fruit (strawberries or wild blueberries), sauerkraut and mushrooms or ground pork. That was pretty much it. We came back and ruskie were everywhere -- and rightly so.

This depends entirely on family traditions. My mother is from near the eastern border of Poland (Włodawa), my father from around Lublin, my wife from central Poland (Kutno).

Each family makes different versions of pierogi, even ruskie are different between the families. I (predictably) prefer the version that my mother makes, which has extra thin dough and slightly higher cheese to potato ratio, but all of them are good.

Other than ruskie I love pierogi z jagodami (with wild blueberries). They are the best summer food.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#83

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

Tade0 wrote: post #3

There's an interesting shift in language associated with the Russian invasion of Ukraine - a type of pierogi which used to be called ruskie (from the region of Red Rus, where they originate) are now commonly named ukraińskie (Ukrainian) instead. The reason is that the adjective ruskie is typically understood as "Russian" in general parlance.

Sorry but no. Live here and eat pierogi few times a week. Still calling them ruskie, and people are just as indifferent to that name as they have always been.

The subject has popped up here and there. But more as a whimsical joke amongst people around me with more of an intelligentsia background.

There are however, many new places with Ukrainian pelmieni opening up everywhere you look. But that’s a separate thing.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#84

Post by f6v »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #34
keiferski wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t think I’d explain it as being that simple. Rusyns today are also descendants of Rus but don’t get much recognition in Ukraine today.

Even the Ukrainian state’s non-recognition of the Rusyn people isn’t so simple: in Slovakia you can meet minority East Slavic speakers who insist that what they speak is “Ukrainian” (when it’s obviously not), and that “Rusyn” is a weird label outsiders keep trying to pin on them.

Oh, now “it’s not so simple”. Come on, Rusyn is a very distinct cultural identity that’s much closer to Magyars than to Ukrainians.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#85

Post by f6v »

genman wrote: post #70
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, what you say is true, but irrelevant in the context of this discussion thread. You look like you are searching for reasons to get upset, and you ought to calm down, take a deep breath, and consider that some of your interlocutors here are not your enemies. You copy/pasted the same text in the reply to me as you did to another user in this thread. Please don’t do this, it is considered poor form on HN.

If anything then this personal attack is an example of poor quality. I'm far being upset. Maybe you are? My comments try to explain why Ukrainians believe that Russians have stolen the "Rus" identity (from them) only for themselves. While your comment is not entirely wrong, it is not precise enough to explain the whole story.

> My comments try to explain why Ukrainians believe that Russians have stolen the "Rus" identity (from them) only for themselves.

Which is completely irrelevant to the thread. And, let’s be honest, is of little interest to anyone. This cultural appropriation bullshit has gotten old a long time ago already.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#87

Post by f6v »

genman wrote: post #67
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While what you say is true, it is irrelevant in the context of the discussion here about the popular misunderstanding of pierogi ruskie . This confusion is due to multiple factors than just “Russia stole”, including that the Ukrainian-language literary canon is centered around “Ukrainian” as the ethnonym, instead of making any attempt to preserve or revive the ethnonym “Rus”. While some Rusyns did maintain the ethnon…

But it is clear that Polish pierogi ruskie can't be Russian dumplings because Russian dumplings are pelmeni that are dumplings with meat. But the origin of these dumplings is not Russian either, as the word comes from the Udmurt language.

> Russian dumplings are pelmeni

Not only that. It’s also vareniki that can be filled with potatoes or cheese. The best I’ve had were with Adygeya cheese in the Krasnodar region.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#88

Post by OfSanguineFire »

f6v wrote: post #84
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the Ukrainian state’s non-recognition of the Rusyn people isn’t so simple: in Slovakia you can meet minority East Slavic speakers who insist that what they speak is “Ukrainian” (when it’s obviously not), and that “Rusyn” is a weird label outsiders keep trying to pin on them.

Oh, now “it’s not so simple”. Come on, Rusyn is a very distinct cultural identity that’s much closer to Magyars than to Ukrainians.

Both me and the other poster in this thread have posted links on the overlap between Rusyn and Ukranian identities in Eastern Slovakia. The Magyar identity is centered around the Hungarian language and Roman Catholicism or Protestantism, while any history of the Rusyn people will emphasize how they are East Slavic-speaking Greek Catholics, so why you feel that the Magyars are relevant here is beyond me. Some of the Rusyn-speaking world was under Austrian administration in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, so they weren’t even under Hungarians politically.

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#89

Post by Jabrov »

eithed wrote: post #76
sznio wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

polish person here, i don't like them sauerkraut+mushrooms pierogi are the best

pierogi with blueberries are the best :) jk - pierogi are like dogs: there're just no bad pierogis

Tell that to the pitbull that bit the hell out of me

Re: Poland's Most Famous Dish: Pierogi

#90

Post by sprior »

The big controversy in my house is that my Polish grandmother made pierogi with rolled edges and we ate them fried (the edges were my favorite part), but when I married a Polish woman who went to cooking school in Poland she insists that she's never heard of doing it that way and she does it the correct way. She'll now make a few with rolled edges for me, but most without.
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