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Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

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Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#81

Post by talldatethrow »

talldatethrow wrote: post #68
ksenzee wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People will think poorly that I’m talking down a romantic partner Well, yes. Relationships don’t do well when one of the partners has this much contempt for the other. There’s a difference between knowing in your own mind she’s not the best at her job, and calling her a “ditzy” “illogical” “girl” in public.

I don't call her that in public.

Do guys really think talking on an anonymous forum, about any one of hundreds of employees in a company, is the same as "calling someone something in public"?

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#82

Post by lazyasciiart »

talldatethrow wrote: post #37
fumar wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones. I like to think they snuck in as a communication device more so than pocket computer. As in, kids and parents wanted to stay connected for emergencies but the software grossly exceeded text or phone call capabilities. I had a Nokia 9930 to reach my folks and rarely used it outside of making calls.

I know what you mean, but I'd love to hear what kind of emergency communication a child needs to make to an adult, or adult to child. (That isn't accomplished the exact same way via the school staff)

[flagged]

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#83

Post by talldatethrow »

ksenzee wrote: post #71
talldatethrow wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't call her that in public.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38524596 is a publicly accessible URL. That’s what I meant. You’re assuming it doesn’t matter because she’s not smart enough to find it and recognize herself.

Lol you're talking about having respect for someone I assume, but then you assume there's 'intelligence' in finding a random link in the world?

Let's say she was a damn genius. Do you expect her to have Google alerts setup for non official spellings of her school districts name? Is a genius supposed to be checking my browser history on my phone?

How smart would she have to be to find what I wrote?

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#84

Post by giantg2 »

talldatethrow wrote: post #62
tjr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect part of it is overall societal changes pertaining to phone usage. When I was an elementary school student, I carried a few coins in the event that I had to call someone on a payphone. (Which happened very rarely.) But today, we have no payphones. Well, almost none. So what else could you do, with no payphone? Perhaps you could find someone else who had a phone that they could let you borrow. In years past,…

The kid can own the phone. In silent. In the backpack. Never to be seen on school grounds. And if they need to make a call, they go to the admin building, and explain why, and use the office phone.

That's the way it used to work - communication goes through the administration. If my parents schedule changed they could call and leave a message with the office for me. If I had an emergency the admin could call them. It's certainly simpler with cell phones though.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#85

Post by josephcsible »

donatj wrote: post #19

As a former student of a Minnesota district right outside Minneapolis, it's interesting to me that they were allowed at all. When I was in school in the late 90's / early aughts we weren't even supposed to have our Discman or early MP3 players on school property. We all had them of course, but if they were seen they could be confiscated - I think it was largely an empty threat but I never saw anyone push it. Some tea…

> some of the ruder study hall attendants would clear your calculators memory of games.

Do you mean school-issued calculators, or personally owned ones?

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#86

Post by bcrosby95 »

dxbydt wrote: post #79
beaeglebeach wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are often hardest on their own caregivers though, so the more you look like a parent figure the more they rebel. Of course nowadays corporal punishment is 'child abuse' so the child is emboldened knowing they can do whatever they like, including violence, with absolute impunity from physical pain.

> Children are often hardest on their own caregivers Hear hear! If your kids turn out good, they'll say you are lucky.If they don't, they'll say you messed up as a parent. Either way, the parent never gets any credit.

Reality is a mixed bag. There's lots of things about a kid that is very difficult to change. We've done a lot in the past to try to discourage certain bad behaviors once they developed but what mostly happened was they eventually grew out of it thanks to no particular tactic we employed.

So I mostly just try to model the behavior I want to see.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#87

Post by s1artibartfast »

talldatethrow wrote: post #56
s1artibartfast wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>she has trouble controlling her own students because I believe they themselves have realized she's inconsistent and illogical, so anything goes. They do something, she says something they don't respect, they continue, she gives up This really shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Even 2 year old children can understand authority, power dynamics, and contests of will. For that matter, a 6 month old puppy will understand…

What part? That it exists as stated? Or do you believe that every single teacher in California should be deciding how to teach what verbs are, or how dividing works, in their own way however they choose? Is that really better than finding the best explanation, worksheets, and using that? Because right now there's a classroom in California being taught the worst possible way how to divide, out of all the other classro…

First, I object to the idea Every teacher gets to decide what they teach. There is a very prescriptive list of what the curriculum must contain, and it is assessed by standardize tests.

Second, teachers aren't fungible robots. They are humans with personalities, interests, and passions. Education works best when teachers are engaged. I think you underestimate the value provided by flexibility. you might be able to reduce variation through standardization, but that doesnt mean you improve the mean. My very best teachers went off script, teaching more valuable information, like a 5th grade teacher that decided to teach business, html, and the scientific method.

Last, it isn't exactly anarchy. Many subjects can be taught from texts, which are organized along standardized approaches.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#88

Post by gnicholas »

klyrs wrote: post #76
gnicholas wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a mix of schools that start with K, 4th, or 6th and end with 8th. Where are you that high school starts with 8th grade? is that still called "freshman year"? I'm in California and have never seen a school like that.

Well technically, we call it "grade 8" rather than "8th grade" (and that I slip up here is a tell that I'm a foreigner) and it's technically "secondary school" but I don't hear people call it that. High schoolers don't have cutsey names for the grades. They're just... in grade 8, in grade 12, etc. This is in Canada.

They don't refer to "senior year"? I don't think of that as cutesy at all — just descriptive. Do you refer to university by these 'cutesy' names? Or is it grade 13-16?

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#89

Post by boopmaster »

pempem wrote: post #41
donatj wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am well aware that they don't police it. What I am questioning is the why. Why did it stop. Why have the attitudes towards personal technology in schools swung so quickly? Phones in schools seem like nothing but a distraction.

Honestly I generally agree with you. I dont even want my kid to have a phone but now that I have a child I am worried about them being able to call me if there is some kind of: - natural disaster - school shooting - third type of personal issue where the school doesn't share what happened Growing up I do not remember my parents having these fears despite there being a bomb scare (once during my schooling).

80s/90s kid here..

I remember my car breaking down and needing to walk to a rest area, to use a pay phone to call for help.

That and using pay phones generally as a convenience when I would bike miles into town, well that isn’t really available anymore.

I’ve had to knock on a door to ask a stranger to use their phone.

I’ve had to ask a store to use their phone.

A lot of this seems so strange now, like I cannot picture myself needing to rely on strangers and stores!

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#90

Post by s1artibartfast »

jakeinspace wrote: post #77
s1artibartfast wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

basically yes, This is how it was when I attended a high performing highshool. Failure to engage got students moved to a remedial class so that they didnt drag others down. Outright disruptive behavior could escalate to expulsion.

I also attended a high-performing high school. These tactics don’t work as well with students who aren’t filtered or trained extensively to work in a rigorous academic setting. I’ve been in some typical Philadelphia school district classrooms as well, best of luck to teachers in that environment.

The tactics dont work in what sense? Are there students that learn better when there are no consequences and their peers are playing music in class or shouting over the teacher?
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