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Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

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Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#51

Post by s1artibartfast »

talldatethrow wrote: post #42
donatj wrote: post #19

As a former student of a Minnesota district right outside Minneapolis, it's interesting to me that they were allowed at all. When I was in school in the late 90's / early aughts we weren't even supposed to have our Discman or early MP3 players on school property. We all had them of course, but if they were seen they could be confiscated - I think it was largely an empty threat but I never saw anyone push it. Some tea…

Delete

>she has trouble controlling her own students because I believe they themselves have realized she's inconsistent and illogical, so anything goes. They do something, she says something they don't respect, they continue, she gives up

This really shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Even 2 year old children can understand authority, power dynamics, and contests of will. For that matter, a 6 month old puppy will understand the same.

I pretty strongly disagree with the rest of what you said about state curriculum.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#52

Post by axus »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #50
layman51 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they swung quickly because maybe aside from some families using them for communication in case of an emergency, the phones just became more of a liability to take away from a student. I haven’t been in classrooms recently, but I can imagine for high schoolers, taking away their phone == taking away their wallet.

I’ve never bought the “we need them for emergencies” argument. Are there _that many_ emergencies happening that the school office is unable to field calls from parents who need to reach their child right now ? I don’t see the “it’s like their wallet” argument either. That the phone is expensive and it contains personal information doesn’t mean it’s not disruptive to the classroom.

What if the collected wallet/phone gets lost or stolen? That becomes the school's problem.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#53

Post by starttoaster »

talldatethrow wrote: post #49
lozenge wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They do something, she says something they don't respect, they continue, she gives up." And what do you want her to do? Stop the lesson until the student respects her? Remove the student from the classroom?

One, students that don't listen used to be removed. So, potential totally yes. Two, I expect her to put a lot of personal effort into becoming at expert in motivation, behavior management, discipline for kids. I expect her to at least read ONE book about this. She complains for 2+ years about this that I've known her. I recommend books, she gets insulted and explains why it's not relevant. IMO a teacher being paid $9…

> I have never seen her take work home once in 2 years. So don't say the hours are long.

What does she teach? One of my best friends is a foreign language teacher that leaves home for work around 6AM and is never back home until around 7-8PM. Partially because they have to coach for sporting events because the paycheck for just teaching is ridiculously low; less than $50k/yr last I asked. Fairly middle class area in a suburb of Chicago, by the way.

But yes, if what you've said is halfway accurate, it sounds like her and her coworkers are fairly underqualified and/or under-driven.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#54

Post by gnicholas »

klyrs wrote: post #35
gnicholas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the Wait Until Eighth campaign (though I personally think 9th makes much more sense, given the break between 8th and 9th grades. https://www.waituntil8th.org/

Sounds like you live in a place with middle schools. Our system goes straight from elementary 7th grade to high school 8th grade. I grew up with middle schools and think they make a lot more sense. That said, I'd rather a "wait until 18th"...

We have a mix of schools that start with K, 4th, or 6th and end with 8th.

Where are you that high school starts with 8th grade? is that still called "freshman year"? I'm in California and have never seen a school like that.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#55

Post by tjr »

talldatethrow wrote: post #37
fumar wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones. I like to think they snuck in as a communication device more so than pocket computer. As in, kids and parents wanted to stay connected for emergencies but the software grossly exceeded text or phone call capabilities. I had a Nokia 9930 to reach my folks and rarely used it outside of making calls.

I know what you mean, but I'd love to hear what kind of emergency communication a child needs to make to an adult, or adult to child. (That isn't accomplished the exact same way via the school staff)

I suspect part of it is overall societal changes pertaining to phone usage.

When I was an elementary school student, I carried a few coins in the event that I had to call someone on a payphone. (Which happened very rarely.)

But today, we have no payphones. Well, almost none.

So what else could you do, with no payphone? Perhaps you could find someone else who had a phone that they could let you borrow. In years past, it wouldn't have been that uncommon to walk into a store or other place of business, or walk into your school office, and politely ask if you could use the phone. They might let you, or they might not, but it was a reasonable request.

I imagine today that it would come across a lot more suspicious. Why don't you have your own phone?

Both infrastructure and ways of thinking have shifted toward assuming that all individual people who might need to make a phone call have their own personal mobile phone.

Children being assumed to have their own phone is probably more of a grey area, but even so, things have changed, and there may be no going back.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#56

Post by talldatethrow »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #51
talldatethrow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delete

>she has trouble controlling her own students because I believe they themselves have realized she's inconsistent and illogical, so anything goes. They do something, she says something they don't respect, they continue, she gives up This really shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Even 2 year old children can understand authority, power dynamics, and contests of will. For that matter, a 6 month old puppy will understand…

What part? That it exists as stated?

Or do you believe that every single teacher in California should be deciding how to teach what verbs are, or how dividing works, in their own way however they choose?

Is that really better than finding the best explanation, worksheets, and using that? Because right now there's a classroom in California being taught the worst possible way how to divide, out of all the other classrooms in California. Why? Because why not, freedom!

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#57

Post by s1artibartfast »

lozenge wrote: post #46
talldatethrow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delete

"They do something, she says something they don't respect, they continue, she gives up." And what do you want her to do? Stop the lesson until the student respects her? Remove the student from the classroom?

basically yes, This is how it was when I attended a high performing highshool. Failure to engage got students moved to a remedial class so that they didnt drag others down. Outright disruptive behavior could escalate to expulsion.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#58

Post by gnicholas »

morelisp wrote: post #47
gnicholas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if fac/staff had a way around this, it would wreak havoc on parents and other visitors. I can't volunteer at my kid's school if it means I would be unreachable by my other kid's school. Or my spouse/doctor/etc.

I’m not really disagreeing, but - that was absolutely normal and near-universal just 15 years ago.

Yes, people had different ways of dealing with things in the past, but things are different now. I recall seeing a comment on HN last week that said the commenter ignored a call assuming it was spam, and was only alerted to the fact that his kid was in the hospital when someone from the school showed up at his door.

People assume they can reach you by phone these days, especially if you're the parent of young-ish children.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#59

Post by duxup »

One of the issues was cellphones in the bathroom. I don’t think the staff wanted be constantly patrolling and dealing with kids in the bathroom.

I can tell you I’m happy to not be getting constant emails about cell phones that you just know parents who don’t care aren’t reading/ won’t do anything.

I have a child in that specific school.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#60

Post by talldatethrow »

starttoaster wrote: post #53
talldatethrow wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, students that don't listen used to be removed. So, potential totally yes. Two, I expect her to put a lot of personal effort into becoming at expert in motivation, behavior management, discipline for kids. I expect her to at least read ONE book about this. She complains for 2+ years about this that I've known her. I recommend books, she gets insulted and explains why it's not relevant. IMO a teacher being paid $9…

> I have never seen her take work home once in 2 years. So don't say the hours are long. What does she teach? One of my best friends is a foreign language teacher that leaves home for work around 6AM and is never back home until around 7-8PM. Partially because they have to coach for sporting events because the paycheck for just teaching is ridiculously low; less than $50k/yr last I asked. Fairly middle class area in…

She's at a public school, and she's a 6th grade teacher. I can't say any more because it's already an almost doxable situation.

That sucks your hard working teacher is only making $50k. They should move to the San Ramon area and sit around teaching the kids of middle management of SV.

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