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Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

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Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#31
post #27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a weird comment. Did you really think most schools widely police cell phone usage in the year 2023?

I am well aware that they don't police it. What I am questioning is the why. Why did it stop. Why have the attitudes towards personal technology in schools swung so quickly? Phones in schools seem like nothing but a distraction.

Probably because teachers lost moral authority to police cell phones since they themselves likely use their phone during down time in class.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#32
post #24
post #19

As a former student of a Minnesota district right outside Minneapolis, it's interesting to me that they were allowed at all. When I was in school in the late 90's / early aughts we weren't even supposed to have our Discman or early MP3 players on school property. We all had them of course, but if they were seen they could be confiscated - I think it was largely an empty threat but I never saw anyone push it. Some tea…

This is a weird comment. Did you really think most schools widely police cell phone usage in the year 2023?

They should but many do not. The students do not need to be on their phones during school hours. They are there to learn.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#33
post #28
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am well aware that they don't police it. What I am questioning is the why. Why did it stop. Why have the attitudes towards personal technology in schools swung so quickly? Phones in schools seem like nothing but a distraction.

because cellphones became ubiquitous and admins never felt empowered to strictly limit them in schools

>> What I am questioning is the why. Why did it stop. Why have the attitudes towards personal technology in schools swung so quickly?

>> Phones in schools seem like nothing but a distraction.

> because cellphones became ubiquitous and admins never felt empowered to strictly limit them in schools

You're missing the point.

But there was a time when they weren't ubiquitous and admins did feel empowered to strictly limit similar distracting devices. It's anachronistic thinking to cite the present-day situation as a reason for a past change, when the conditions in the past were different.

This is purely hypothetical, but I could see a process for the change where teachers and admins were ignorant of texting, so allowed phones under the mistaken belief that they would not disrupt class, because students would only use them to make voice calls to parents outside of class (because it would be far easier and cheaper for students to talk to each other in person). Then a new status quo was established. Then the school's awareness of the harms came like a frog boiling in a bot: a little bit a time, and too slowly to motivate action until it was too late.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#35

This has to be done by the school, there is not a critical mass of parents able to stop existing momentum.

There is the Wait Until Eighth campaign (though I personally think 9th makes much more sense, given the break between 8th and 9th grades. https://www.waituntil8th.org/

Sounds like you live in a place with middle schools. Our system goes straight from elementary 7th grade to high school 8th grade. I grew up with middle schools and think they make a lot more sense.

That said, I'd rather a "wait until 18th"...

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#36
post #24
post #19

As a former student of a Minnesota district right outside Minneapolis, it's interesting to me that they were allowed at all. When I was in school in the late 90's / early aughts we weren't even supposed to have our Discman or early MP3 players on school property. We all had them of course, but if they were seen they could be confiscated - I think it was largely an empty threat but I never saw anyone push it. Some tea…

This is a weird comment. Did you really think most schools widely police cell phone usage in the year 2023?

Is that such an odd thought? I know about this, but can easily imagine others being unaware of it. It seems like a reasonable thing to expect

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#37
post #30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am well aware that they don't police it. What I am questioning is the why. Why did it stop. Why have the attitudes towards personal technology in schools swung so quickly? Phones in schools seem like nothing but a distraction.

Smartphones. I like to think they snuck in as a communication device more so than pocket computer. As in, kids and parents wanted to stay connected for emergencies but the software grossly exceeded text or phone call capabilities. I had a Nokia 9930 to reach my folks and rarely used it outside of making calls.

I know what you mean, but I'd love to hear what kind of emergency communication a child needs to make to an adult, or adult to child. (That isn't accomplished the exact same way via the school staff)

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#38

This has to be done by the school, there is not a critical mass of parents able to stop existing momentum.

Yep, we had a pact with the parents of my kids and several of them caved early and now we look like the bad guys. That's ok, sometimes we have to be the bad guys. Hopefully, like me and my parents, the child appreciates later in life why the parent did things a certain way. Obviously, we have explained to them why they can't have phones yet, but they don't agree of course. For when my kids do get phones, I want a way…

>we had a pact with the parents of my kids

Interesting. I wonder if putting some money (charity, etc) or other skin in the game would increase compliance and how many parents would agree to that. I could see this working at a small private school

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#39
post #27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a weird comment. Did you really think most schools widely police cell phone usage in the year 2023?

I am well aware that they don't police it. What I am questioning is the why. Why did it stop. Why have the attitudes towards personal technology in schools swung so quickly? Phones in schools seem like nothing but a distraction.

I think they swung quickly because maybe aside from some families using them for communication in case of an emergency, the phones just became more of a liability to take away from a student. I haven’t been in classrooms recently, but I can imagine for high schoolers, taking away their phone == taking away their wallet.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#40
post #26

[flagged]

HNs readership grew up in times when where cellphone usage was limited in schools by nature and also by policy (using them in class certainly was never allowed or tolerated). Jailbreaking my phone had nothing at all to do with school and was never something that could be prevented by school policy. It also feels like you have extremely out-of-the-norm takes on schooling in general. Most people do not want to end comp…

You claim my takes are super out of base, but I’m basically just arguing the same things that Paul Freire advocated for in Pedogogy of the oppressed, which is requires reading in many universities in the USA (why this is, I’ll never know since it advocates for a far different educational system to the one that exists today)

That book is the third most highly cited book in all of social science and the most highly cited work of pedagogy of all time.

I’ll edit this and give point by point rebuttals in a bit.

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