So can I sell a camera with the following description? SpyCam Disclaimer: should not be used for spying
This is the situation of cannabis seeds in at least large part of the EU. You can have/buy/sell the seeds but it's illegal to grow them.
Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
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Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
#72Good. Amazon has been happy to rake in commissions for years from dodgy products sold by third party sellers (uncertified electrical equipment, scam flash drives/SSDs, spycams, etc) and then turn around and blame the marketplace sellers when the inevitable happens. Unlike eBay, Amazon goes to great lengths to sow confusion about what it sells versus its marketplace participants. The average user thinks that when they…
Yes. I'm quite tired of hearing "it's not our fault that toys full of lead were sold on our storefront and stored, fulfilled, and shipped from our warehouse in boxes bearing our logo! When we said that we 'recommend' the product, we meant, like, algorithmically, not for realsies. We had nothing to do with these products! It's all XGZDoo, a company we kicked off the store. And now would you like to buy any products fr…
I like having a Wild West, but it should be clearly advertised as such. AliExpress and eBay are clearly Wild West platforms and I appreciate them.
Getting scammed on Amazon is different. Amazon should be fully liable since very sophisticated customers can be confused by commingling, marketplace settlers, algorithmic recommendations, etc. all designed to look legitimate to the unwary while being completely unsafe.
I stopped buying food and medical products on Amazon because... scams.
Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Perhaps most alarming to the plaintiff, Amazon's Product Safety Team specifically inspected the camera to "ensure" that Amazon wasn't platforming a product being used to “infringe privacy,” “surreptitiously record others for sexual purposes,” or “create and store child sex abuse material.” This is the key bit that makes it different from your examples.
Would you use that same protocol for all cameras, SSDs, HDDs, and microsd cards that could “create and store child sex abuse material"? Someone should be in prison, but it isn't Sony, hitachi's or AT&T's fault when their products are used in this way.
There are products that have legitimate uses but can be abused for something else; and there are products designed for abuse that also have legitimate uses. Small cameras have a lot of useful uses. However a camera disguised as a towel hook is clearly designed for use in a bathroom where it is unlikely it will be used for legitimate purposes.
If you make a camera as a towel hook you need to have good know your customer policies to ensure only legitimate porn producers buy it. The general public should buy concealed cameras that don't look like things that you would find in a bathroom thus making it more likely if used in a bathroom they are found.
Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you use that same protocol for all cameras, SSDs, HDDs, and microsd cards that could “create and store child sex abuse material"? Someone should be in prison, but it isn't Sony, hitachi's or AT&T's fault when their products are used in this way.
SSDs don't tend to market themselves via description/pics as "great for child porn" though. The likelihood of a towel rack spy camera being used for ill purposes is substantially higher than an SSD.
This didn't say it was great for child porn either. Both cameras and storage classify under “create and store child sex abuse material.”
Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, but I would if they sold bathroom cameras. The issue isn't of quality, it's an issue of legality
Have you seen some of the legit home cameras? They're not hard to hide either (according to YouTube). I looked on Amazon, if it was bought on eBay under a different name nobody would say anything. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKHVD994/ this one is tiny and doesn't say bathroom or spy.
The issue isn't of potential illegal use, it's an issue of explicit illegal use.
The camera description specifically describes how it can be used for illegal purposes.
There's a huge difference between selling "stump remover" and "spouse poison" even if they're the same chemical.
Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
#76A spy camera that looks like a towel hook seems like a product that should be illegal to sell. For what legitimate purpose would somebody want a towel hook camera? Don't most people put towel hooks in bathrooms? It seems perfectly reasonable to hold Amazon legally responsible for selling this product even if it was a 3rd party seller (not clear from the article). A product whose intended use is to secretly record vid…
"you can't sell a spy cam that looks like a towel hook" is sort of too broad and too specific to be a good law. what does "looks like a towel hook" actually mean? a law like this would end up having some unintended consequences, where bad actors use it for something like claiming all their competitors products look like towel hooks. i think what's happening here is really the ideal solution: you can sell a camera tha…
The “ideal” is not yet reached: the judge rejected a motion to dismiss, there is no verdict yet. And then there’s appeal. Amazon has deep pockets.
Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you seen some of the legit home cameras? They're not hard to hide either (according to YouTube). I looked on Amazon, if it was bought on eBay under a different name nobody would say anything. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKHVD994/ this one is tiny and doesn't say bathroom or spy.
The issue isn't of potential illegal use, it's an issue of explicit illegal use. The camera description specifically describes how it can be used for illegal purposes. There's a huge difference between selling "stump remover" and "spouse poison" even if they're the same chemical.
Semantics. Besides, spying isn't illegal. It could be used for porn.
They get rid of the word spy on the camera, amazon gets a fine and this will now this happen hidden under the surface. It's semantics. What's the real solution to hidden cameras that spy on victims undressing?
Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
"you can't sell a spy cam that looks like a towel hook" is sort of too broad and too specific to be a good law. what does "looks like a towel hook" actually mean? a law like this would end up having some unintended consequences, where bad actors use it for something like claiming all their competitors products look like towel hooks. i think what's happening here is really the ideal solution: you can sell a camera tha…
I'm not sure I can agree with either of you. I definitely don't agree with "thing I don't like should be illegal". And I can't really agree with "People who sold something I don't like should be liable for it's use". I think the "blame" for objects should lie in the people that misuse them. Now, obviously, it's a little hard to come up with legitimate reasons to have a towel hook camera. However... All you're asking…
There is a world of difference between a tiny camera and a tiny camera mounted in a towel hook.
Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
and what is the "right" thing with regards to a coat hook camera? I know someone who put a spy camera in their kitchen to catch a person drugging their beverages. Could've just as easily been a coat hook spy camera. To go at it from another angle, how about those snake cameras that bomb detection units sometimes use. You can use that for illicit purposes and good purposes. I'm not saying the wrong thing is to ban the…
It's advertised as a towel hook. By their own admission, the product is designed, meant and marketed to be used in a bathroom. That's what's great about the case. They can't claim that they're not liable because it is meant for legitimate use because they advertise specifically for an illegal use. By their own admission, they have to find a legitimate use of a bathroom spy cam.
The archive.org copy of the listing linked elsewhere in this thread shows it listed as a clothes hook. One of the photos does show towels on it, suggesting it can work as a towel hook, but another shows a coat on it and is not in a bathroom.
Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised
#80A spy camera that looks like a towel hook seems like a product that should be illegal to sell. For what legitimate purpose would somebody want a towel hook camera? Don't most people put towel hooks in bathrooms? It seems perfectly reasonable to hold Amazon legally responsible for selling this product even if it was a 3rd party seller (not clear from the article). A product whose intended use is to secretly record vid…
"should be illegal" isn't really a tenable criteria to require vendors to apply to their products. What does that even mean, broadly? A product is either legal to sell or it isn't.