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The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

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Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#31

Post by financltravsty »

Ajay-p wrote: post #28
mantas wrote: post #3

Money flow into poor communities of course works. Relatively little money required on global scale. And they probably were given to the organization in some sort of a grant. What happens if you do this in a major economy using it as the source of money? We know what would happen if a bunch of money were printed. What if it was taken out of taxes and crapton of government programs were cancelled? Especially long term.

It would probably cause price inflation. I think if my landlord knew that I was receiving an extra amount of money each month, that everyone got this extra amount of money, they would naturally raise the price of my rent. Retailers would do this for certain. Otherwise it is leaving money on the table, and successful businesses tend to be very aware of this. A UBI would only work if there were massive cost controls, w…

Would a removal of income tax not net the same result?: an increase in money supply, therefore an increase in inflation.

We could always dig at the cultural issue and work towards making greed a degenerate trait to be shunned and managed out.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#32

Post by Arson9416 »

Ajay-p wrote: post #28
mantas wrote: post #3

Money flow into poor communities of course works. Relatively little money required on global scale. And they probably were given to the organization in some sort of a grant. What happens if you do this in a major economy using it as the source of money? We know what would happen if a bunch of money were printed. What if it was taken out of taxes and crapton of government programs were cancelled? Especially long term.

It would probably cause price inflation. I think if my landlord knew that I was receiving an extra amount of money each month, that everyone got this extra amount of money, they would naturally raise the price of my rent. Retailers would do this for certain. Otherwise it is leaving money on the table, and successful businesses tend to be very aware of this. A UBI would only work if there were massive cost controls, w…

[flagged]

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#33

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

ethanbond wrote: post #21
coffeebeqn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always figured UBI would basically replace and end all government poverty programs at least

Nope landlords will just raise rents back to approximately the same level of poverty.

Interesting way to explain inflation as just greedy landlords.

My taxes have tripled in the past 5 years. Appliance, construction, repairs, insurance are all much higher.

If I was renting to people - in what world wouldn’t I be forced to raise their rent? Why would I cover that for someone when I have to pay it?

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#34

Post by cnasc »

ethanbond wrote: post #21
coffeebeqn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always figured UBI would basically replace and end all government poverty programs at least

Nope landlords will just raise rents back to approximately the same level of poverty.

That would probably make a lot of new housing construction more economically viable. I’m not sure what the overall effects of UBI would be, but this seems like it would be a short term effect.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#35

Post by konschubert »

mantas wrote: post #3

Money flow into poor communities of course works. Relatively little money required on global scale. And they probably were given to the organization in some sort of a grant. What happens if you do this in a major economy using it as the source of money? We know what would happen if a bunch of money were printed. What if it was taken out of taxes and crapton of government programs were cancelled? Especially long term.

If everybody earned the same, giving everybody the same amount of money would of course have no effect and simply be cancelled out by inflation.

But not everybody earns the same. So handing out cash to everyone should have a compressing effect of wealth.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#36

Post by SeanAnderson »

thanhhaimai wrote: post #25
SeanAnderson wrote: post #15

I don't know much about UBI. How do people generally see it being implemented? Does everyone get the exact same, flat amount? Do only people below a certain income get it? Does the amount gradually decline based on current income? Does the amount change based on cost of living? If someone remains destitute after being given UBI - is that now more clearly "on them," or do they now qualify for additional support? Genui…

The U in UBI stands for Universal. Everyone gets the exact flat amount, unconditional. That means there is much less administrative cost (don't need to verify that people belong to certain income brackets for example). Overall, the theory is that it would reduce government wasteful administrative process, while being more effective at lifting people out of poverty. The experiments so far are positive.

Okay. So, in the case of America, it would either be relatively ineffective for those living in cities, or relatively enriching for those living in rural areas, yeah?

It seems challenging to get everyone to agree on a fair number.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#37

Post by danenania »

thanhhaimai wrote: post #25
SeanAnderson wrote: post #15

I don't know much about UBI. How do people generally see it being implemented? Does everyone get the exact same, flat amount? Do only people below a certain income get it? Does the amount gradually decline based on current income? Does the amount change based on cost of living? If someone remains destitute after being given UBI - is that now more clearly "on them," or do they now qualify for additional support? Genui…

The U in UBI stands for Universal. Everyone gets the exact flat amount, unconditional. That means there is much less administrative cost (don't need to verify that people belong to certain income brackets for example). Overall, the theory is that it would reduce government wasteful administrative process, while being more effective at lifting people out of poverty. The experiments so far are positive.

Another key aspect of it being universal is that it doesn't disincentive work and improving one's situation. This is a huge problem with unemployment and other means-tested welfare programs. People end up in situations where they're actually worse off if they get a job or make more money.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#38

Post by Ajay-p »

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #23
Ajay-p wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call the permanent fund a UBI. It's proceeds from the sale of oil, whereas every other UBI requires some taxation, wealth transfer, or cuts in spending elsewhere.

Why would the source of revenue make it not UBI?

Because Alaska is unique, AFAIK the only state in America that sells something. Everything else is income redistribution. The money has to come from somewhere. It's a very fine line, I agree, but the permanent fund only exists because the state can generate that income from something other than increased taxes, redistribution, or reducing spending some place else.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#39

Post by konschubert »

ethanbond wrote: post #21
coffeebeqn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always figured UBI would basically replace and end all government poverty programs at least

Nope landlords will just raise rents back to approximately the same level of poverty.

If you upzone and increase supply, it becomes a buyers market and landlords have to lower their prices.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#40

Post by Ajay-p »

crooked-v wrote: post #11
danbruc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a certain way every country with taxes and good welfare system has an UBI, the difference is more of an implementation detail.

There's a huge difference between typical welfare programs and UBI, in that the fundamental principle of the latter is just handing over money with no strins attached and trusting people to (on average) use it efficiently and effectively.

Not everyone gets typical welfare, only those who meet certain criteria. A UBI.. Universal by it's very name.. is given to everyone.
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