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The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

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Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#21

Post by ethanbond »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #12
mantas wrote: post #3

Money flow into poor communities of course works. Relatively little money required on global scale. And they probably were given to the organization in some sort of a grant. What happens if you do this in a major economy using it as the source of money? We know what would happen if a bunch of money were printed. What if it was taken out of taxes and crapton of government programs were cancelled? Especially long term.

I always figured UBI would basically replace and end all government poverty programs at least

Nope landlords will just raise rents back to approximately the same level of poverty.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#22

Post by YiraldyGuber »

MrBlueIncognito wrote: post #4

The idea of UBI, to me at least, is a mind-blowing one. It’s a shame something like this doesn’t exist on a large scale already. I know I’m probably missing something important here, but can someone outline any good reasons, if any, that it hasn’t been implemented yet?

[dead]

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#23

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st »

Ajay-p wrote: post #20
X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/19/21112570/univer... Exactly what qualifies for you may mean it does already exist on a large scale or doesn't. Alaska's UBI program gave 1.3k this year, which I'm guessing many commenters here would say is too small to be a real UBI, but it is universal and has been going for almost 50 years

I wouldn't call the permanent fund a UBI. It's proceeds from the sale of oil, whereas every other UBI requires some taxation, wealth transfer, or cuts in spending elsewhere.

Why would the source of revenue make it not UBI?

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#24

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

underlipton wrote: post #13
MrBlueIncognito wrote: post #4

The idea of UBI, to me at least, is a mind-blowing one. It’s a shame something like this doesn’t exist on a large scale already. I know I’m probably missing something important here, but can someone outline any good reasons, if any, that it hasn’t been implemented yet?

The closest thing we had to it - welfare and unemployment benefits without work requirements or onerous means testing - were dismantled on the basis of shoddy (read: nonexistent) research and amidst an atmosphere of racism and classism, and with the current status quo perpetuated by the perverse incentives of public-private "work search support" contracts. Any analysis of resistance to the implementation of UBI shoul…

> We've known for a while now that the best approach

Another settled science, and it for the progressive outlook. What an amazing coincidence.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#25

Post by thanhhaimai »

SeanAnderson wrote: post #15

I don't know much about UBI. How do people generally see it being implemented? Does everyone get the exact same, flat amount? Do only people below a certain income get it? Does the amount gradually decline based on current income? Does the amount change based on cost of living? If someone remains destitute after being given UBI - is that now more clearly "on them," or do they now qualify for additional support? Genui…

The U in UBI stands for Universal. Everyone gets the exact flat amount, unconditional. That means there is much less administrative cost (don't need to verify that people belong to certain income brackets for example). Overall, the theory is that it would reduce government wasteful administrative process, while being more effective at lifting people out of poverty. The experiments so far are positive.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#26

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #12
mantas wrote: post #3

Money flow into poor communities of course works. Relatively little money required on global scale. And they probably were given to the organization in some sort of a grant. What happens if you do this in a major economy using it as the source of money? We know what would happen if a bunch of money were printed. What if it was taken out of taxes and crapton of government programs were cancelled? Especially long term.

I always figured UBI would basically replace and end all government poverty programs at least

I very much doubt this would happen. The kinds of folks who advocate for UBI would not want to see those who require special accommodation be cut off from assistance programs. For instance, I doubt a paraplegic would be able to support themselves with the standard UBI payment. Also keep in mind the blind get a tax break from the IRS, would such a thing be considered an assistance program?

Of course, one could imagine a compassionate government giving additional UBI money to those who are disabled. But, that would require some bureaucracy to verify claims and make adjustments. At which point we’re back to having an assistance program.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#27

Post by ethanbond »

MrBlueIncognito wrote: post #4

The idea of UBI, to me at least, is a mind-blowing one. It’s a shame something like this doesn’t exist on a large scale already. I know I’m probably missing something important here, but can someone outline any good reasons, if any, that it hasn’t been implemented yet?

A UBI of $x/month will just yield rent increases of $x/month.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#28

Post by Ajay-p »

mantas wrote: post #3

Money flow into poor communities of course works. Relatively little money required on global scale. And they probably were given to the organization in some sort of a grant. What happens if you do this in a major economy using it as the source of money? We know what would happen if a bunch of money were printed. What if it was taken out of taxes and crapton of government programs were cancelled? Especially long term.

It would probably cause price inflation. I think if my landlord knew that I was receiving an extra amount of money each month, that everyone got this extra amount of money, they would naturally raise the price of my rent. Retailers would do this for certain. Otherwise it is leaving money on the table, and successful businesses tend to be very aware of this. A UBI would only work if there were massive cost controls, which would be antithetical to any capitalist-based system. UBI is an interesting theory but there is already a MUCH better option: Remove income taxes.

Re: The first results from the biggest basic income experiment

#30

Post by [deleted] »

thanhhaimai wrote: post #25
SeanAnderson wrote: post #15

I don't know much about UBI. How do people generally see it being implemented? Does everyone get the exact same, flat amount? Do only people below a certain income get it? Does the amount gradually decline based on current income? Does the amount change based on cost of living? If someone remains destitute after being given UBI - is that now more clearly "on them," or do they now qualify for additional support? Genui…

The U in UBI stands for Universal. Everyone gets the exact flat amount, unconditional. That means there is much less administrative cost (don't need to verify that people belong to certain income brackets for example). Overall, the theory is that it would reduce government wasteful administrative process, while being more effective at lifting people out of poverty. The experiments so far are positive.

[deleted]
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