Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

scitechdaily.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 440 posts

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#211

Post by austinjp »

Some speculation in this thread about the causes of tinnitus. There are several, including hearing loss, which (as someone here points out) possibly produces tinnitus in a manner similar to how limb loss can cause phantom limb pain. The nervous system isn't like plumbing, it's a tangled web of self-adjusting feedback loops. Once an input is severed, an area of the tangled web may lose an important calibrating input. Neurons don't emit "noise signals" (or "pain signals" or whatever) they just depolarise in response to stimulation, and altered calibration alters which neurons depolarise and how often. The frequency and number of certain neurons depolarising is experienced as noise (or pain or whatever) by the conscious human they belong to.

Good talk here[0] BUT BE WARNED, I recall* that there's a high-pitched squeal during this talk as a demonstration of what tinnitus is like for done people. It's extremely nasty especially if you're wearing headphones.

Incidentally, the self-adjusting feedback loop model helps explain why things like wiggling your jaw can alter the experience of tinnitus. Due to wiring issues, sensory input from muscles and joints can get mixed in with the auditory inputs. A similar mechanism (which isn't fully understood) helps explain why, for example, people having a heart attack can experience pain in the left arm. There's nothing wrong with the arm, the normal sensory signals from the arm are mixing with those from the heart.

[0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=XGq3MXQlRJs

* Can't verify right now, trusting my memory.

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#212

Post by MyFirstSass »

cedws wrote: post #199
kitsune_ wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a child my teeth were corrected by pulling my lower jaw back with elastic bands. Not only do I have a weak chin because of this, but in hindsight I think my tinnitus might be related to this as well.

I have major distrust of orthodontics as a practice. I see it as chiropractic for teeth. I have permanent damage to one side of my jaw (TMJ) as a result of braces. They not only put unlevel bite blocks in, they did an extraction before putting my braces on. There is literature pointing to this as a common cause of TMJ issues. I was told that the clicking sounds are just due to gas in the joint by a TMJ specialist, bu…

Same!

I had braces as a kid and something always seemed off intuitively about how they "fixed" my teeth.

Also got TMJ, recessed chin, and i've never felt my breathing has been very good afterwards, like my whole face became too narrow after removing 4 molars making me just a bit less attractive.

And after deep diving orthodontics i'm pretty fucking mad. It seems there are way better methods that keep both aesthetics and a more natural breathing - ie. a little palate expansion to make space for your teeth instead of removing teeth and having braces for years.

It's even quicker, like what the actual!

I still have retainers on, and i'm considering having them removed and having rapid palate expansion done as others in this thread recommends. As they also point out, i also have a hard time breathing correctly during sports, and have been worrying over sleep apnea.

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#213

Post by kitsune_ »

MyFirstSass wrote: post #212
cedws wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have major distrust of orthodontics as a practice. I see it as chiropractic for teeth. I have permanent damage to one side of my jaw (TMJ) as a result of braces. They not only put unlevel bite blocks in, they did an extraction before putting my braces on. There is literature pointing to this as a common cause of TMJ issues. I was told that the clicking sounds are just due to gas in the joint by a TMJ specialist, bu…

Same! I had braces as a kid and something always seemed off intuitively about how they "fixed" my teeth. Also got TMJ, recessed chin, and i've never felt my breathing has been very good afterwards, like my whole face became too narrow after removing 4 molars making me just a bit less attractive. And after deep diving orthodontics i'm pretty fucking mad. It seems there are way better methods that keep both aesthetics…

My breathing is impaired as well, there is simply not enough space in my mouth as a result of the fix.

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#214

Post by MyFirstSass »

kitsune_ wrote: post #213
MyFirstSass wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same! I had braces as a kid and something always seemed off intuitively about how they "fixed" my teeth. Also got TMJ, recessed chin, and i've never felt my breathing has been very good afterwards, like my whole face became too narrow after removing 4 molars making me just a bit less attractive. And after deep diving orthodontics i'm pretty fucking mad. It seems there are way better methods that keep both aesthetics…

My breathing is impaired as well, there is simply not enough space in my mouth as a result of the fix.

Exactly, my tongue also seems like it's too big for my mouth afterwards.

I wonder if rapid palate expansion would fix this also.

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#215

Post by groestl »

lutorm wrote: post #144
janmo wrote: post #60

Most people having a peeep tone tinnitus including myself can experience complete silence for a few seconds (up to 30) by listening to a tone at the specific frequency of their Tinnitus. For example listen to the following, at a level that it isn't uncomfortable and your Tinnitus might be gone for a short time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNf9nzvnd1k This is called residual inhibition. You can Google "tinnitus re…

I've always assumed the tinnitus arises from some sort of AGC, automatic gain control, in the auditory system, such that when something is damaged and the signal disappears, the brain will just turn up the gain until the noise is about the level it expects the signal to be. At least my experience with AGC is that it's useless because times of silence ends up just being filled with noise... "audio system tinnitus..."

And I have the suspiction, this can happen with visual signals as well. See "visual snow".

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#216

Post by LoganDark »

nehal3m wrote: post #113
LoganDark wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I have tinnitus, but I made a bad choice of power supply for some of my audio equipment, and it emits an annoying whine from one of its fans. Which is bad because this is supposed to be audio equipment. I may simply remove that fan in the future.

I’ll assume you know what you’re doing, but I still had a gut reaction. Careful not to burn your house down.

It's a MEAN WELL industrial power supply, brand new. I needed 12 volts DC to power a "car" amplifier, but it's not easy to get 50 amps of that from the wall. My guess is it's built for industrial automation, not audio equipment, but it's not like the other option of repurposed server PSUs would have been any quieter.

Removing the fan may or may not be relatively safe depending on how much airflow a 12 inch sub can push through a ported enclosure when it's running anywhere near full enough power to actually heat up the power supply.

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#217

Post by MyFirstSass »

BreadPants wrote: post #165
jader201 wrote: post #96

I don’t know if this is a clue, but I can do muscle movements in my head/face/jaw to make the tinnitus worse (only as I make the movements, immediately reverting back to “normal” tinnitus as soon as I relax). Some examples: - jutting my jaw forwards - moving my ears back with my face muscles - pushing downward on the top of my head with my hands Another possible clue: this has been true since I can remember — even as…

Lemme guess, somewhat narrow palate, slightly recessed jaw. Unable to breathe exclusively through the nose during high intensity workout. Possible indications of sleep apnea. If they're detecting nerve damage, it's happening from nerve compression. Tinnitus being a manifestation of the compressed nerve. I would bet money rapid palatal expansion with a proper midpalatal suture split would cure you.

Had braces for years, they removed 4 molars, was horrible, now my smile is too narrow, breathing bad, got TMJ, tongue too big for mouth, recessed chin look worse etc.

Why is it that orthodontics used this method? I can see locally it's still only some dentists that seem to use palate expansion when it's seemingly easier, prettier, quicker, healthier etc. than teeth removal + braces?

Thinking about removing my retainers and having a palate expansion done instead as you recommend as i seriously feel like i'm never really getting enough air during sports, sleep etc.

EDIT: This whole reddit thread is quite crazy, full of people having all sorts of issues cured by various methods that classic ortho wont approve: https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/11ow1yb/expan...

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#218

Post by adamddev1 »

beingfit wrote: post #168
adamddev1 wrote: post #56

Here's a very interesting study about how manual osteopathy on the temporal bones could help the auditory nerve/tinnitus. It's been a huge relief for me. https://norcaloa.com/CAOT/articles-in-press/CAOT-101018 I've suffered from tinnitus that's gotten worse at times, and for me it definitely feels like there's some sort of nerve that's pinched or damaged because my hearing is totally fine but when certain muscles are…

> Here's a very interesting study about how manual osteopathy on the temporal bones could help the auditory nerve/tinnitus. It's been a huge relief for me. > https://norcaloa.com/CAOT/articles-in-press/CAOT-101018 Is this something that only a medical professional should do? If not, I’d love to see a video of this. I can’t figure out from the figures what one is supposed to do.

I'm pretty sure it's just something that trained osteopaths could do. Cranial osteopathy takes a lot of practice and learning as I understand.

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#219

Post by sanitycheck »

matsemann wrote: post #210
jaeckel wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I just realized that I meant the Frenzel Maneuver, which I always forget the name of. OK you need a nose clip, but besides that it's hands free. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenzel_maneuver

Frenzel is not done by controlling the muscles in the ear. It's done by controlling your epiglottis and your tongue and push air against a blocked nose. So while it's hands free, it's not the same.[1] With controlling the muscles in the ear, one can do it without a nose clip. It's called BTV (or VTO sometimes in English)[2], and instead of forcing air in to open the eustachian tube, you just open it by muscles. [1]:…

I used to scuba dive, and yes - can "click my ears" while breathing freely through my nose and/or mouth. We were taught to use Valsalva when feeling pressure during ascent/descent, and after a while I found I was able to just use the right muscles voluntarily instead.

Re: Tinnitus linked to undetected auditory nerve damage

#220

Post by adamddev1 »

jader201 wrote: post #96

I don’t know if this is a clue, but I can do muscle movements in my head/face/jaw to make the tinnitus worse (only as I make the movements, immediately reverting back to “normal” tinnitus as soon as I relax). Some examples: - jutting my jaw forwards - moving my ears back with my face muscles - pushing downward on the top of my head with my hands Another possible clue: this has been true since I can remember — even as…

Yes, me too. An ENT also told me that my tinnitus was muslce-related and I got huge relief (low tones totally disappeared) from some good physiotherapy and osteopathy. (See my other comment)
Post reply on HN