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300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

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Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because they understand the point of life. It is the creating and the making that makes things worth living. That is why chat gpt and similar tech is going to make our lives more meaningless. Writing and struggling and completing the poem is itself more than half of what makes a poem worthy. The final artifact which chatgpt provides is meaningless without that effort.

People have made this class of prediction in reference to oncoming technologies of many forms. Perhaps we've lost something valuable each time. Perhaps it has been worth it; perhaps not. Or, perhaps the predictions have been incorrect, partially or fully.

I think they’ve been largely wrong so far, but not entirely. Some valuable things have been lost, but there is a clear (and huge) net benefit anyway so we needn’t worry.

But to think that AI (whether generative or some sort of AGI in the future) is just another technology seems to me to be an obvious mistake.

To take one example, there’s a huge difference between using a set of sophisticated and complex software tools to produce a piece of electronic music over a period of tens of hours, and spending ten seconds typing a prompt into one of these new genAI tools and selecting one of the several audio clips it throws back. But I suppose as these technologies mature and gradually become embedded into our ecosystems we’ll find that there’s still just as much work to be done.

It definitely feels like a fundamentally different class of tool to anything we’ve ever had before, though.

Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes because they understand the point of life. It is the creating and the making that makes things worth living. Surely one of the lowest birthrates in the world and highest suicide rates would contend with that.

because those rates have been the case since Japan’s inception. Lol, you cant be genuinely that confined in your thinking.

1. that may be true for suicide rates, but not TFR

2. even if suicide rates have remained uniformly at the same level - how does does that disqualify my statement, which is that those numbers seem to contradict the parent, who appeared to assert that Japanese people produced these types of goods because they innately understood the point of life?

I find the assertion with no evidence absurd insofar that it doesn't even need a formal rebuttal. Moreover, I think there are more compelling reasons that explain Japanese cultural proclivities like, as the parent of parent mentioned, an extended isolation from land traffic, minimal wartime damage to the country as a whole which has allowed these types of companies to exist (did multi-generational companies cease to exist in invaded countries because they lacked proper appreciation for life?), and no zero colonial dilution

Parent made a sweeping generalization about Japanese society based on nothing. I made a sweeping generalization about Japanese society based on two demographic points.

Perhaps my perspective is confined, but surely not the most confined perspective in this thread.

Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that struggling to write poetry makes the poem worthy. The final result, and its impact on the performer/reader/listener does (and I say this as a poet). Many of my most profoundly impactful (to myself and others) works birthed themselves painlessly in thirty minutes or less. Several ones that mean the most to me in less than five minutes.

I can't speak for you, but I find it hard to believe meaningful compositions would be meaningful without the words naturally flowing out of the emotions that birthed them. You'll find no such meaning behind the statistically average gunk spit out by generative models.

This is nice, in sentiment, but a lot harder to reconcile when you realize that many if not most of the musicians we treasure have written their music in detached emotional states when they wrote their music, either high on LSD, amphetamines, heroin, or cocaine.

Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes because they understand the point of life. It is the creating and the making that makes things worth living. Surely one of the lowest birthrates in the world and highest suicide rates would contend with that.

Some (myself included) would rather live a depressing yet productive existence than a carefree but ultimately meaningless one. Working hard is what life is about. I’m not claiming that explains what’s going on in this case; just that what you point out isn’t necessarily as much of a contradiction as it might initially seem.

I don't disagree that I made a specious rebuttal. But parent stated that Japanese people had an innate appreciation for life that others do not. If I were to believe that, then I'd probably also think that their innate appreciation would reflect in a more uniform preferences for family and work over time.

Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#65

I find it endearing, fascinating but ultimately tedious that the Japanese put SO much effort into both seemingly mundane AND intricate objects. I realize that it's more a combination of tradition and their self imposed ~exile~ (isolationism, corrected) from the world for a long time. But there must be a reason why they excel, I mean really excel at anything they put their minds to. Their population also tolerates thi…

Re: architecture in Japan the typical lifespan of a house is less than 30 years: https://robbreport.com/shelter/home-design/japanese-homes-ar...

I'd recommend the book Jutaku by Naomi Pollock to get a sense of how uniquely innovative Japanese housing architecture is. Ironically a major reason is tax depreciation rules for houses which encourage homeowners to demolish and rebuild rather than renovate.

Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#66

I find it endearing, fascinating but ultimately tedious that the Japanese put SO much effort into both seemingly mundane AND intricate objects. I realize that it's more a combination of tradition and their self imposed ~exile~ (isolationism, corrected) from the world for a long time. But there must be a reason why they excel, I mean really excel at anything they put their minds to. Their population also tolerates thi…

They absolutely do some nice crafts, but so does everyone else. Aside from personal tastes, the primary reason Japan holds a special place in certain people's hearts is because of a fairly mature and extremely successful ongoing marketing campaign, Cool Japan [1]. This meme quite aptly illustrates the phenomenon: https://old.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/mw20up/this_site_is_...

They have nice pens? So does Pelikan and Visconti

They have nice paper? So does Smythson and G. Lalo

They have nice architecture? Beautiful, unique, inspiring? So does every other country (except of course for modern architecture)

They have nice pop art? There's some really nice anime out there, just like our comics, though anime is generally more soulful than the capeshit stuff, for sure

Food? As tasty and unique as any other country's I'd say, though you'll leave the restaurant with an empty stomach

I think Japan has done a better job than most countries at preserving the economic viability of arts and crafts, deliberately via protectionism and accidentally via cultural elements. I wish my own culture valued cultural tradition and quality over absolute economic efficiency, as they once did.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Japan

Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always felt that Japan takes things the rest of the world is known for and does it better. Some examples to add on to yours above. - Better denim than America - Better coffee than Italy/France/etc - Better French pastries than France

Colombian coffee is arguably the best, not Japanese, Italian, or French. As for denim I doubt that, any examples?

> Columbian coffee is arguably the best

How might you go about making that argument

Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The output you create with tools doesn't have to be any less rewarding that the output you create without them. A good game isn't inherently meaningless to your life because you used existing tools far beyond your capacity to construct alone (a computer, a compiler, a game engine) and a bad game isn't inherently meaningful to you just because you made it out of a tree with your bare hands. How you wield the tools (in…

Not a popular opinion around here, but generative AI has little overlap with the processes common to creating all sorts of art, but lots in common with commissioning creative work. When you commission art, you have a discussion with the artist— however long it needs to be to get your point across. That can be quite lengthy and involve many sketches, mood boards, etc for important pieces, or a couple of sentences for…

I agree if you just say "make me a painting" you're not an artist, "write me a program that" and you're not suddenly a programmer, and "operate on the patient" you're not a magically a surgeon. At the same time, if, without AI for a second, you just drag the color pencil across some paper a few times, write int main(){return 0}, or chop the guys pinky off with an scalpel to fix a wart you've not demonstrating being an artist, programmer, or surgeon just because you used the tools artists, programmers, and surgeons are known to use.

There are ways to use AI, or any tool we've yet made, like you're saying some people use e.g. photoshop. I'd be surprised if you've seen most people who own a copy of photoshop learn how the masking, convoluting, and effect layers work algorithmically as their path to learn how to create art with it. Most learn by seeing what can be done with it, mimicking that until they understand how to use it to do what they have in mind, then applying that process. Just as you can deliberately work with traditional tools to piece together and grow an image, you can do the same with generative and diffusion tools as well - their usage goes far beyond "make me painting" in the same way the usage of a brush goes far beyond being able to make the canvas brown instead of white. I don't need to know how the magic wand makes feathered selections of pixels to understand I can make it select sections of an image for me and I don't need to understand how an AI model knows what part of the image was the cats head to have it modify it. I'd also say the vast majority of people with a paintbrush or copy of photoshop have a clue how to make art like a professional artist would, that says nothing about whether one can do so with said tools. It is indeed much easier to create something that used to take a lot of effort, but that's not the right measures for whether something can be used in creation or whether something is good art rather a measure of whether something had any real thought or effort put into it.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about crossing names out, unless you mean what I described above where you say "make me painting" and act like you're a great artist because your tool made something appear instead of you creating something with it. If there is another meaning to what you mean hear it'd be interesting to hear precisely what you mean.

That is to say, there is more to whether doing meaningful creation is still possible than rushing to see whether a similar seeming end result can be created with the same tools in a less meaningful way as well. You wouldn't say Van Gogh's paintings were all meaningless fake art creations because an AI tool can output something which seems like them by simply asking it to so why is it this is the evidence there is no way to use an AI tool to truly "create" any kind of art at all?

Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because they understand the point of life. It is the creating and the making that makes things worth living. That is why chat gpt and similar tech is going to make our lives more meaningless. Writing and struggling and completing the poem is itself more than half of what makes a poem worthy. The final artifact which chatgpt provides is meaningless without that effort.

> Yes because they understand the point of life. It is the creating and the making that makes things worth living. Surely one of the lowest birthrates in the world and highest suicide rates would contend with that.

The stereotype on suicides is not as true as it once was. Japan now has a lower suicide rate than the US. Its suicide rate is currently barely in the top 50.

Re: 300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs

#70
Japanese culture has a particular attraction to westerners.

But it’s an illusion from marketing than reality.

It may be true that many aspects of Japanese culture are better than the American stuff, but doesn’t mean Japan has any global advantage in their fancy niche products over other countries like China, Korea, Sweden, or Switzerland.

Just as an example, the pantheon comb by a Slovakian company eclipses this “fancy” 200 dollar Japanese one.

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