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If I Were Starting a Software Engineering Career Today

jmarchello.com

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Re: If I Were Starting a Software Engineering Career Today

#31

Post by astura »

JohnFen wrote: post #20
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work that doesn’t pay particularly well and can be hard on your body. This is a huge departure.

Experienced welders, plumbers, and electricians make as much as senior software devs do, at least in my part of the US.

Median pay (2022) from the U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS.

Welders: $47,540 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers...

Plumbers: $60,090 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers...

Electricians: $60,240 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electric...

Software Developer: $124,200 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

Re: If I Were Starting a Software Engineering Career Today

#32

Post by astura »

nonameiguess wrote: post #30
roflchoppa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welding, plumbing, electrician… plenty of work for the foreseeable future.

This sentiment gets expressed a lot on Hacker News, but I really wonder how many people saying this are actually familiar with these careers. I was the first person in my family to ever go to college. My dad, both grandfathers, all of my uncles, my brother-in-law, most of my cousins all worked or work in skilled trades. Aside from the physical demands which can and do tend to eventually beat you up (my dad's knees ba…

>I really wonder how many people saying this are actually familiar with these careers

They are fetishizing these careers because they're totally unfamiliar with them.

Re: If I Were Starting a Software Engineering Career Today

#33

Post by astura »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #21
astura wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a joke comment? Those people work twice as hard as me and get paid half of what I do.

Idk what you get paid but there are a lot of avenues for the trades to make well over 100k or 200k.

You're wrong - there's not "a lot of avenues" for the trades to make "well over 100k or 200k."

Median pay (2022) from the U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS.

Welders: $47,540 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers...

Plumbers: $60,090 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers...

Electricians: $60,240 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electric...

In the past Hacker News comments also claimed truckers were very highly paid

Heavy and Tractor-trailer Truck Drivers: $49,920 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/h...

We can compare those numbers to

Software Developer: $124,200 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

Maybe some individual plumbers are making hundreds of thousands of dollars, but they are an extreme outlier. The other question is how many hours are they working a week to make that much? I'm guessing you either have to work lots of overtime or be a business owner.

I have a lot of friends and family in the trade and the trucking industry. I made more than every single one of them and they all work more hours than me. The one friend I have that makes "almost $100k/year" works almost every weekend to make that.

Re: If I Were Starting a Software Engineering Career Today

#35

Post by mydogcanpurr »

astura wrote: post #33
CuriousCosmic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk what you get paid but there are a lot of avenues for the trades to make well over 100k or 200k.

You're wrong - there's not "a lot of avenues" for the trades to make "well over 100k or 200k." Median pay (2022) from the U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS. Welders: $47,540 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers... Plumbers: $60,090 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers... Electricians: $60,240 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/e…

I think a nationwide stat isn’t very useful because it ignores cost of living and the fact that most SWEs are concentrated in particular areas of the country. I think it’s very likely based on this data that software engineering just pays better in all or most regions, but this data is a bit skewed because of confounders.

Re: If I Were Starting a Software Engineering Career Today

#36

Post by the_only_law »

JohnFen wrote: post #5

Honestly, if I were starting my career today, I'd choose a different career. I love being a developer, but the industry has changed significantly for the worse over the decades. Enough so that I don't recommend people enter it.

Same here. I didn’t even plan to go into the industry, but kinda just did it because it was the best (or only) option I could think of at the time. I had earlier plans, but they fell through and I was stuck. In retrospect, I could always shift over to doing software later on from something else if I wanted, but doing the opposite seems very limited.

Re: If I Were Starting a Software Engineering Career Today

#37

Post by the_only_law »

astura wrote: post #31
JohnFen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experienced welders, plumbers, and electricians make as much as senior software devs do, at least in my part of the US.

Median pay (2022) from the U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS. Welders: $47,540 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers... Plumbers: $60,090 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers... Electricians: $60,240 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electric... Software Developer: $124,200 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-informati…

Even if you’re in an area where $60k is decent, I’m not sure it’s as great as it sounds. I remember talking to an electrician turned Uber driver a couple years ago. He was making ok money, but with insane hours and in shitty environments. I don’t recall exactly what he said he wanted to do, but he was looking at getting out of the field. Anecdotally, I’ve heard similar stories from friends in nursing.

Re: If I Were Starting a Software Engineering Career Today

#39

Post by hotpotamus »

nonameiguess wrote: post #30
roflchoppa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welding, plumbing, electrician… plenty of work for the foreseeable future.

This sentiment gets expressed a lot on Hacker News, but I really wonder how many people saying this are actually familiar with these careers. I was the first person in my family to ever go to college. My dad, both grandfathers, all of my uncles, my brother-in-law, most of my cousins all worked or work in skilled trades. Aside from the physical demands which can and do tend to eventually beat you up (my dad's knees ba…

Now imagine not even having a union. But yes, the level of delusion here, particularly around the pay for tradespeople, can be striking. I suspect they will encourage their own children to go to college and not pursue a trade (and I don't blame them for that).

Re: If I Were Starting a Software Engineering Career Today

#40

Post by jmarchello »

pipes wrote: post #38

So spend life working, building stuff outside of work and then writing about it while I'm asleep?

Author here, I have 4, soon to be 5 small kids, a full time job, church responsibilities, etc. This exploring and tinkering and learning doesn't have to take up a ton of time. 30 minutes a day can make a huge difference. I get quite a bit done while sitting with my kids while they fall asleep each night.

I also play tabletop and board games, watch TV with my wife each night, and even play Mario kart with my kids. There's plenty of time.

That said, my advice was primarily targeting recent graduates or young developers who are looking for a job. That implies they have plenty of time and are trying to put the bulk of it towards finding a job. If I were in that position, I'd treat building my resume and finding a job _as_ my full time job.

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