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Henry Kissinger Has Died

nytimes.com

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Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#471

Post by boppo1 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #305
imgabe wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through the descriptions of the episodes of this podcast it seems a lot like they start with a conclusion and then confirmation bias themselves (and everyone else who already agrees with them). Maybe not the most objective source.

Asking half rethorically, how would these descriptions be different if they were fully objective and the guy was a really horrible person ? In general a podcast series will be started after the hosts have researched the subject, and decided they have an angle to present it to their public. Following them while doing their research could be interesting at small doses, but the number of absolute non stories or boring c…

>In general a podcast series will be started after the hosts have researched the subject, and decided they have an angle to present it to their public. Following them while doing their research could be interesting at small doses, but the number of absolute non stories or boring conclusions would be staggering and they'd need to be crazy entertaining by themselves to keep a whole podcast going on that pace.

This is false. Age of Napoleon is quite good at presenting the factual history of its topic and then weighing dual interpretations of events. He highlights that something is his opinion when he gives it. The result is a wildly engaging podcast.

Hell, he's an avowed Marxist, which is a belief system I find repugnant. However, other than one or two clearly labeled bonus interview episodes, his views are AFAICT, totally absent from his presentation of history. He strives very hard to not tell you what to think.

It is disheartening that you believe information must be presented with an agenda.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#473

Post by boppo1 »

n9 wrote: post #314
imgabe wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through the descriptions of the episodes of this podcast it seems a lot like they start with a conclusion and then confirmation bias themselves (and everyone else who already agrees with them). Maybe not the most objective source.

You might listen to the podcasts. They are good and they are well researched. Listen: I met Kissinger a few times and spent a few decades of my life working with foriegn policy wonks. He was a monster beyond compare. And I'll just add this in. When I was 24 I got a job at the New York Times working on the tech team that would launch nytimes.com. The "web editor" was one Bernard Gwertzman. Look him up. He was the fore…

Do you think the NYT's war coverage (Ukraine & Israel) is still so slanted, or have they improved?

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#474

Post by reducesuffering »

jrflowers wrote: post #436
reducesuffering wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, this is what I'm talking about. You can read about Operation Menu for yourself. "In 1966, Sihanouk made an agreement with Zhou Enlai of the People's Republic of China that would allow PAVN and VC forces to establish base areas in Cambodia and to use the port of Sihanoukville for the delivery of military material Before the diplomatic amenities with Sihanouk [and the US] were even concluded, Nixon had decided to…

Thanks for the quotes! Here is a collection of primary sources https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/cold-war-henry-kissi...

Good, got any that can illuminate how Kissinger was “coming up with the whole idea?"

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#475

Post by Aicy »

aniforprez wrote: post #467
animal_spirits wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuanced and unbiased conversation is much needed in this world, and having multiple viewpoints from people with different biases helps us all.

What "nuance and unbiased conversation". Forgive me for not giving an inch to someone who watched as millions were murdered by bombs. A factual retelling of the man's "achievements" should make any sane person cringe with disbelief that he lived to be a hundred and wasn't jailed. There's a time and place for multiple viewpoints and this is not it. Sometimes "the other side" really has no place

This leads to a dangerous path.

If you are not willing to engage with or understand the other side of the debate you will have no capacity to understand or debate the modern day Kissingers who are currently in government.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#476

Post by klik99 »

breput wrote: post #6

Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with sources, on the "controversial" statesman that you'll read eulogies about over the next few days. [0] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger [1] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger [2] https://omny.fm/shows/behind…

Haven't listened to the podcast (yet) and don't know much about kissinger but the description "the Forest Gump of war crimes" made me laugh out loud, whether or not it's accurate.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#477

Post by boppo1 »

jjeaff wrote: post #227
imgabe wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through the descriptions of the episodes of this podcast it seems a lot like they start with a conclusion and then confirmation bias themselves (and everyone else who already agrees with them). Maybe not the most objective source.

in my experience, this is basically how all podcasts and documentaries seem to be made.

Try Age of Napoleon.

Mentioned the reasons in my last post.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#478

Post by ReptileMan »

mrweasel wrote: post #390
dannylandau wrote: post #224

Many people have a positive view of Kissinger -- https://www.wsj.com/articles/henry-kissingers-century-01a1a9...

I think it's a generational thing. Kissinger should have stopped commenting on world affairs 20 decades ago. It became increasingly oblivious that the world was evolving in a direction he didn't understand or comprehend. He continued to attempt to apply his cold war era world view and solutions to current issues, when it was obvious to most that his ideas where nonsense. An example: His idea that Ukraine should give…

> His idea that Ukraine should give up territory to please Russia made it clear that he don't understand modern Russia or Putin. It's not a conflict in which he has no relevant experience or any deep insight, yet he felt the need to use his influence to present his poorly thought out idea.

And yet it is exactly this behind the scenes that Ukraine European backers are pushing Zelensky to do. When it is clear that the war is a quagmire and Ukraine is underperforming.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#480

Post by boppo1 »

truculent wrote: post #441
imgabe wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through the descriptions of the episodes of this podcast it seems a lot like they start with a conclusion and then confirmation bias themselves (and everyone else who already agrees with them). Maybe not the most objective source.

What exactly would an “objective” source look like?

'attempted objectivity' is better. It would include: - narrator reveals his convictions at the start - focuses on things that physically happened - weigh dual/multiple interpretations and views of said events from relevant factions, attempting the greatest charity with the one(s) opposed to the initially revealed convictions.
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