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Henry Kissinger Has Died

nytimes.com

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Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#441

Post by truculent »

imgabe wrote: post #196
breput wrote: post #6

Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with sources, on the "controversial" statesman that you'll read eulogies about over the next few days. [0] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger [1] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger [2] https://omny.fm/shows/behind…

Reading through the descriptions of the episodes of this podcast it seems a lot like they start with a conclusion and then confirmation bias themselves (and everyone else who already agrees with them). Maybe not the most objective source.

What exactly would an “objective” source look like?

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#442

Post by octodog »

einpoklum wrote: post #433
skrebbel wrote: post #418

I just can’t help think how much wider the global support for the west (incl eg ukraine) would be today if Kissinger’s “we can do war crimes and install dictators all we like cause we’re the good guys” doctrine hadn’t made it to the forefront of US policy. Even from a hardcore neorealist perspective, the harm has by now well outlasted the benefit.

[flagged]

Nonsense. Ukraine already had an agreement with Russia that turned out to be worth less than the paper it was written on.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#443

Post by leobg »

scandox wrote: post #405
leobg wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. What a refreshing directness: > He was a swine of a man and a jabbering dupe of a president. Nixon was so crooked that he needed servants to help him screw his pants on every morning. Even his funeral was illegal. He was queer in the deepest way. His body should have been burned in a trash bin. How come they could publish this without getting sued into oblivion?

You can't libel the dead

The dead have estates.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#444

Post by aryonoco »

No newspaper obituary will say it like this, so I feel obliged to say it.

One of the world's most notorious war criminals, a man with millions of people's blood on his hands, a man directly responsible for the rise of anti-liberal regimes across the world from Russia to Iran, died today.

He brought misery to the world and set the course of human progress back by decades.

People only think of the likes of Stalin or Pol Pot when they think of "evil". But the name Henry Kissinger belongs right up there.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#445

Post by ilkke »

breput wrote: post #6

Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with sources, on the "controversial" statesman that you'll read eulogies about over the next few days. [0] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger [1] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger [2] https://omny.fm/shows/behind…

A villain that he was, even he called out the Rambouillet text [1]

[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambouillet_Agreement

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#446

Post by parineum »

einpoklum wrote: post #433
skrebbel wrote: post #418

I just can’t help think how much wider the global support for the west (incl eg ukraine) would be today if Kissinger’s “we can do war crimes and install dictators all we like cause we’re the good guys” doctrine hadn’t made it to the forefront of US policy. Even from a hardcore neorealist perspective, the harm has by now well outlasted the benefit.

[flagged]

It's honestly refreshing to see this information about Ukraine posted with minimal partisanship.

The West has, with every decision, made the choice that put Ukrainian lives and sovereignty at risk starting from practically the day the wall fell.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#447

Post by timeon »

einpoklum wrote: post #433
skrebbel wrote: post #418

I just can’t help think how much wider the global support for the west (incl eg ukraine) would be today if Kissinger’s “we can do war crimes and install dictators all we like cause we’re the good guys” doctrine hadn’t made it to the forefront of US policy. Even from a hardcore neorealist perspective, the harm has by now well outlasted the benefit.

[flagged]

> Ukraine. It could very well have maintained neutrality and avoided the invasion.

This seems naive. Ukraine was already invaded in 2014. I guess you are not from Eastern Europe when you deny these nation sovereignty.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#448

Post by chmod775 »

einpoklum wrote: post #433
skrebbel wrote: post #418

I just can’t help think how much wider the global support for the west (incl eg ukraine) would be today if Kissinger’s “we can do war crimes and install dictators all we like cause we’re the good guys” doctrine hadn’t made it to the forefront of US policy. Even from a hardcore neorealist perspective, the harm has by now well outlasted the benefit.

[flagged]

That's nonsense and Russia has repeatedly stated it won't do X (if Ukraine does Y), then did it regardless. Appeasement has always been a shit strategy.

Most prominently Russia claimed it won't invade Ukraine if Ukraine doesn't join NATO - Ukraine's NATO bid occured after Russia's full-scale invasion happened anyways.

Similar story with the nuclear disarmament of Ukraine.

One has to be especially gullible to trust Russia at this point.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#449

Post by ilkke »

skrebbel wrote: post #407
mmpdev wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only would we not recommend our war criminals to the ICC, we have on the books the authorization to be able to invade the Hague in case any US person was being held or tried. Hague Invasion Act / ASPA is wild.

The rest of the west is allied with the US because they’re the least evil guys, not because they’re the good guys. I’m Dutch and knowing that the US has a constant threat of extreme violence against us written into their law scares the crap out of me. We’re supposed to be happy jolly NATO allies but srsly that shit is not cool.

Least evil by what metric?
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