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Henry Kissinger Has Died

nytimes.com

421–430 of 673 posts

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#421
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a good reminder that public judgement isn't worth much for any personality who had access to lots of bonafide top secret information. A lot of sensitive diplomatic and military records from even the 60s are yet to be declassified, so the final verdict of future historians will likely rest on much different information then we can access today.

Can you give any examples of somebody that was unjustly vilified by the public until top secret information was released that exonerated them?

Not necessarily 'unjustly vilified', but most of Edgar Hoover's biography were done before the extend on soviet spying in the US was declassified. It talked about a very interesting podcast on a previous comment [1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36257604

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#422
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The greatest irony here is that he managed to make it to 100. "Only the good die young, only evil seems to live forever". Iron Maiden

I always joked that the devil wouldn't take him and he's not allowed in heaven.

TBH he's exactly the kind of guy the Old Testament God would like.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#423
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're expecting a podcast titled "Behind the Bastards" to be an objective source?

The podcast, no. But if a comment is going to offer a link with the conceit of “consume this to fully understand who this person was” it would be good if the source were not something with the explicitly stated thesis of “hey, this guy’s a bastard”. I mean, you don’t even need to listen to it to know what the conclusion is going to be.

I don't know anything about the podcast beyond the name, but I could see a podcast called "Beyond the Bastards" not having a forgone conclusion about their subject, but being more about why someone is believed to be awful and then going "beyond" to see if that were fair. I'm going to give the podcast a chance.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#424

> He has a brother who came to America when he did. Recently, the brother was asked why he had no German accent but Henry did. “Because,” said the brother, “Henry never listens.” https://jacobin.com/2012/08/gore-vidal-dead-and-yet-henry-ki...

https://www.azquotes.com/quote/1223820 The British capitalize on their accent when they don't want you to know what they're saying. But if you wake them up at 4 A.M., they speak perfect English, the same as we do.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#425
post #130

I was riding an elevator to my hotel room when it stops on another floor and in gets Henry Kissinger in the company of beautiful young blonde. So I say "Hey! Aren't you Kissinger?" Henry replies "no I'm Fsckinger." (The last time I can tell a 50 year old joke)

That's not how Kissinger is pronounced. It's a soft g. Sorry to spoil your joke, but as you say it's reached the end of its natural life anyway.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#426
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Henry is such a strange name for a child. It just doesn't make sense to me. Henry is like an adult name :/

This is the most perplexing comment I've ever read.

Your handle sounds familiar. Have we crossed paths previously? Hmm

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#427

Many people have a positive view of Kissinger -- https://www.wsj.com/articles/henry-kissingers-century-01a1a9...

It's hard to do that level of genocide and escape the Hague without a few admirers

Even those that did not escape the Hague have admirers.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> assume he was smarter than the people without clearance Idk, it's actually wild how HN is almost entirely "Kissinger is a war criminal" meme-ing with little actual specific policy substance behind it. Meanwhile, if you read any Kissinger, you'd realize he understood history and the international relations better than 99% of these comments. Truly, word-for-word basis you will undoubtedly learn far more about history…

> meme-ing with little actual specific policy substance behind it. This is a good point. Can we really say for certain that “bombing noncombatant countries both during a war and after a treaty was signed” is a war crime, and even if it were would “coming up with the whole idea” even count as contributing to something like that? It is confusing stuff like this that has led to no person ever being convicted for war cri…

See, this is what I'm talking about. You can read about Operation Menu for yourself.

"In 1966, Sihanouk made an agreement with Zhou Enlai of the People's Republic of China that would allow PAVN and VC forces to establish base areas in Cambodia and to use the port of Sihanoukville for the delivery of military material

Before the diplomatic amenities with Sihanouk [and the US] were even concluded, Nixon had decided to deal with the situation of PAVN/VC troops and supply bases in Cambodia.

On 30 January 1969, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Earle Wheeler suggested to the president that he authorize the bombing of the Cambodian sanctuaries. He was seconded by General Creighton W. Abrams, who also submitted his proposal to bomb the Central Office of South Vietnam (COSVN), the elusive headquarters of PAVN/VC southern operations, located somewhere in the Fishhook region of eastern Cambodia. Abrams claimed to Nixon that the regions of eastern Cambodia to be bombed were underpopulated and no civilian deaths would be caused."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu

But instead, all any snarky layman hears from the grapevine is that Kissinger is coming up with the whole plan to bomb a random Commie country for zero reason. That you know Kissinger's name and not any of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Sec Def, or Sec State at the time involved in these decisions tells everything. People need an evil mastermind scapegoat, like McNamara was for Vietnam, because they can't comprehend the complexities involved in fog of war decision making, with no hindsight, and all the actors involved.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#429

From the obituary in the New York Times: "Michael T. Kaufman, a former correspondent and editor for The Times who died in 2010, contributed reporting." So, Kissinger outlived the guy who wrote his obituary!

That's very common. Basically all elderly people of note have obituaries written by reporters on staff so that an article can be gotten out quickly if the subject dies suddenly. Not uncommonly, the targets of the obituary are of a higher class and have better medical treatment and so live beyond their obituary writer.

Common? Give us another example

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#430
post #360
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The gap in life expectancy between the richest 1% and poorest 1% of individuals was 14.6 years (95% CI, 14.4 to 14.8 years) for men and 10.1 years (95% CI, 9.9 to 10.3 years) for women. Second, inequality in life expectancy increased over time. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4866586/#:~:tex... .

But from the same paper: > One such theory is that health and longevity are related to differences in medical care. The present analysis provides limited support for this theory. Life expectancy for low income individuals was not significantly correlated with measures of the quantity and quality of medical care provided, such as the fraction insured and measures of preventive care. The lack of a change in the mortali…

There are also pretty significant differences in diet and substance use between different income quartile...
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