Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes seriously - there’s a strong argument the Kissinger committed actual treason several times. He’s responsible for the deaths (hundreds?) of thousands.
Millions according to the Rolling Stone article.
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Henry Kissinger Has Died
301–310 of 673 posts
Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
YouTube seems to have made it unplayable (for now). You get a vague error when you try to play it.
Alternative link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVGV6lvNTR4 (Edit : added another) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En7bhLPso2Y
This one now show the same error
Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died
#303Probably as good a time as any to re-link the Mother Jones piece "Daniel Ellsberg on the Limits of Knowledge": https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/02/daniel-ellsbe... Linked on HN numerous times but largely only discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3296691
It's also a good reminder that public judgement isn't worth much for any personality who had access to lots of bonafide top secret information. A lot of sensitive diplomatic and military records from even the 60s are yet to be declassified, so the final verdict of future historians will likely rest on much different information then we can access today.
Can you give any examples of somebody that was unjustly vilified by the public until top secret information was released that exonerated them?
Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The only thing that seemed his own idea was personally planning and picking bombing targets to murder hell out of everybody in Cambodia. That and being a total horn dog.
The crowd here might find it preposterous but Kissinger dated models and movie stars. One that I remember was the actress Jill St. John who was a Bond girl in the movie Diamonds are forever. The two dated for a couple of years. Miss St. John also dated Michael Caine, Sean Connery, David Frost and Tom Selleck.
Proving once again an ugly man can get the ladies if they have compensating traits.
Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died
#305Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with sources, on the "controversial" statesman that you'll read eulogies about over the next few days. [0] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger [1] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger [2] https://omny.fm/shows/behind…
Reading through the descriptions of the episodes of this podcast it seems a lot like they start with a conclusion and then confirmation bias themselves (and everyone else who already agrees with them). Maybe not the most objective source.
Asking half rethorically, how would these descriptions be different if they were fully objective and the guy was a really horrible person ?
In general a podcast series will be started after the hosts have researched the subject, and decided they have an angle to present it to their public. Following them while doing their research could be interesting at small doses, but the number of absolute non stories or boring conclusions would be staggering and they'd need to be crazy entertaining by themselves to keep a whole podcast going on that pace.
It's harsh to fault them for having an opinion on the subject they dug to the end, and a conclusion already made at the time they start recording the series.
Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died
#306I can understand why people despise Kissinger, but he’s a pretty interesting figure on the whole. Not the best diplomat or Secretary of State we’ve had, but certainly a seminal figure in American foreign policy.
He is interesting in the way Hitler, Stalin, or Churchill are "interesting".
Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
Podcasts, in general, are not made to cater to bonafide genius intellectuals. Maybe every so often a conversation within a podcast episode contains some extraordinary analytical insight not found elsewhere, but to expect an entire series of episodes to average out to anything close to that is too high of an expectation. That being said, it is probably correct to ignore most of them.
> Maybe every so often a conversation within a podcast episode contains some extraordinary analytical insight not found elsewhere Much like comments written on the internet. > That being said, it is probably correct to ignore most of them. See above.
Podcasts, like live news, radio talk shows, and other scheduled throughput based media, have to fill time with content. If there's nothing intelligent to say, they say stuff anyways.
Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've already listened and it's excellent. Tl;dr version: Kissinger was an almost superhuman ass-kisser. He had an incredible knack for playing along with whatever insane idea somebody had and made everybody in the room feel goddamned brilliant. The richest, most powerful, and most beautiful people in the world just loved being around him because he consistently sounded interesting and made them feel intelligent. And…
>He had an incredible knack for playing along with whatever insane idea somebody had and made everybody in the room feel goddamned brilliant. The richest, most powerful, and most beautiful people in the world just loved being around him because he consistently sounded interesting and made them feel intelligent. You call that ass-kissing, others may call it diplomacy. He may have furthered his own interests but did he…
It depends on your evaluation of his outcomes, but the scholarly opinion of him is that the legacy of his that endures is the death toll, while the geopolitical outcomes were bad for the U.S. (losing Vietname/Cambodia/Laos), temporary advantages (Pinochet in Chile), or opinionated side-taking that has not been good for the U.S. or the world (Israel/Palestinians).
He was very effective at remaining in a position of power and influence. I don't think you'll find many who believe he was as consequentially good for America.
Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died
#309I have a feeling that people who hate him were on the receiving end of his work, or associate him as one of those bogeyman characters that their in-group is expected to hate, or whom it's popular and fashionable to hate. He seems to have been quite good at what he did, and this made his opponents hate him particularly vehemently. If you bother to read what he wrote, he had a pretty humble but accurate view of things…
It isn't only his opponents who hated him, it's the countless families and friends of the innocent bystanders who got caught in Kissinger's crossfire.
Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died
#310Many people have a positive view of Kissinger -- https://www.wsj.com/articles/henry-kissingers-century-01a1a9...
It's hard to do that level of genocide and escape the Hague without a few admirers