Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Henry Kissinger Has Died

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 673 posts

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#101

Post by jandrese »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #78
jandrese wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The level at which Henry Kissinger micromanaged the bombing of innocent civilians can not be overlooked. Even by fairly stringent definitions he is a war criminal.

> level at which Henry Kissinger micromanaged the bombing of innocent civilians can not be overlooked Sure. But legally irrelevant. He didn’t command them. The person receiving the order could—and in many cases, should—have refused. That’s different if e.g. Nixon ordered it directly, because in that case it’s a military command. Again, these terms had meaning. But they’re practically unenforceable even in public opin…

That's the point. He was giving direct targeting data to bomber pilots that bypassed the chain of command. You can't say someone can't be a war criminal if they had underlings, supervisors, or peers who should have known better and stopped them. There would never be war criminals in that case.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#102

Post by e40 »

buildbot wrote: post #86
breput wrote: post #6

Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with sources, on the "controversial" statesman that you'll read eulogies about over the next few days. [0] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger [1] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger [2] https://omny.fm/shows/behind…

Yes seriously - there’s a strong argument the Kissinger committed actual treason several times. He’s responsible for the deaths (hundreds?) of thousands.

Millions according to the Rolling Stone article.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#104

Post by photochemsyn »

Hey have you ever thought about the role Henry Kissenger played in the development of the Israeli nuclear weapons program? It's not inconsequential:

> "Kissinger then defines what the U.S. wants overall, agreed broadly in the group: Israel’s secret nuclear arsenal is dangerous, but public knowledge is also dangerous, given that it could lead to a Soviet-Arab nuclear guarantee. Thus, at a minimum, the U.S. should keep it secret."

Sounds nuts, right? Reputable source I guess:

https://policymemos.hks.harvard.edu/blog/israeli-nuclear-pro...

Kissenger was a remarkable character, his legacy is worth examining with a fine-tooth comb... isn't it?

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#105

Post by acdha »

ceejayoz wrote: post #79
acdha wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I’m sure that’s why he was never seriously threatened legally: the closest you could get to command would probably be Cambodia where he very explicitly told General Haig to start bombing a neutral country but in that case was also very clearly passing on Nixon’s direct order: “He wants a massive bombing campaign in Cambodia. He doesn’t want to hear anything. It’s an order, it’s to be done. Anything that flies, o…

"I just did what the Führer ordered" wasn't a winning argument at Nuremberg.

Yes, but we haven’t exactly set the same precedent for our own war criminals. I had hoped that Obama would’ve had more courage but a lot of people convinced him to make the wrong call.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#106

Post by RajT88 »

arp242 wrote: post #5

I'm surprised at the extreme brevity of this obituary; were they taken by surprise someone could die of old age as young as 100 and didn't have anything prepared? I would have expected at least an brief summary of his career, highlights, major points of controversy, etc. e.g. like this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/29/henry-kissin... (and undoubtedly many others). Also, this ruins my "Jimmy Carter v.…

I had a grandfather who was a boozing, gambling, cheating, abusive, no-good man who had a similarly short obit.

This is how it works. If you cannot say anything nice, do not say anything at all.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#107

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jandrese wrote: post #101
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> level at which Henry Kissinger micromanaged the bombing of innocent civilians can not be overlooked Sure. But legally irrelevant. He didn’t command them. The person receiving the order could—and in many cases, should—have refused. That’s different if e.g. Nixon ordered it directly, because in that case it’s a military command. Again, these terms had meaning. But they’re practically unenforceable even in public opin…

That's the point. He was giving direct targeting data to bomber pilots that bypassed the chain of command. You can't say someone can't be a war criminal if they had underlings, supervisors, or peers who should have known better and stopped them. There would never be war criminals in that case.

> can't say someone can't be a war criminal if they had underlings, supervisors, or peers who should have known better and stopped them

This isn’t true. The persons who carry out the order are liable. As is the commander.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#108

Post by pphysch »

digdugdirk wrote: post #18

Are we sure? I was beginning to wonder if the afterlife was going to be holding out on this one. Poor taste jokes aside - is there anyone else as directly responsible for as much modern day suffering, who has "gotten away with it" more cleanly in the eyes of the public? I've always found the disconnect between history and legacy to be rather... jarring.

The neocons? Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Kagans, Nuland, Bolton, et al.

In terms of stopping ongoing and future conflicts, this is the group we need to hold accountable. Not Kissinger, whom they hate(d), and hasn't been making policy for decades.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#110

Post by photochemsyn »

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #88
photochemsyn wrote: post #54

If you really want to understand the Kissenger era, the best raw source IMO is this: > "The Oil Kings: How the U.S., Iran, and Saudi Arabia Changed the Balance of Power in the Middle East is a 2011 book by Andrew Scott Cooper" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oil_Kings > "The book discusses Henry Kissinger, the 1970s oil embargo, and the Iranian Revolution. Cooper had stated that the story on how the U.S. became dep…

> If you read Machiavelli's "the prince" you'll know everything you need to know about Kissenger. Never had an original idea in his whole life. I mean Steve Jobs didn't do a lot of invention either, but he was still quite the character and bent the course of history

Well yes, right up there with Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin, I guess. Which circle of Dante's Inferno do you think these characters end up in?
Post reply on HN