The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster • Hacker News Board

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#311

Post by ponector » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

klibertp wrote: post #254

tpm wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you believe they bombed the theater because they were actively trying to kill Ukrainian children? Yes. They are also actively bombing clinics (including the maternity ward in Mariupol too, look it up) and they have done that in Syria too. It's pretty well documented. They are evil, but more than that, it's a strategy. They are currently also bombing civilian areas, fully aware that they are civilian areas. There…

> They are currently also bombing civilian areas, fully aware that they are civilian areas. They might be "fully aware" that those areas are used by the "enemy" to stockpile materiel and gather personnel. That would make those areas legitimate targets. Can you prove a) there were no military targets there, or b) the attackers were "aware" there were no military targets there? I can't - nobody can. That's why when you…

Good examples with hospitals. Even if there is a personnel in the hospital it is still a war crime to target it.

Russian army is full of war criminals(some of them have been drafter directly from prisons), they simply don't care about crimes. And that is true because international community also don't care, there is no enforcement.

Mass killing of civilians? It is ok for Russians. Invasion into neighboring country? It is ok for Russians. Destroying grain storage to cause price spikes and food instability in Africa? It is ok for Russians. Piracy on the Black Sea? It is ok for Russians. Blowing ammunition depots in Europe Union? It is ok for Russians.

And list goes on, but nobody cares if oil is flowing.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#312

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

dataworm wrote: post #276

klibertp wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are currently also bombing civilian areas, fully aware that they are civilian areas. They might be "fully aware" that those areas are used by the "enemy" to stockpile materiel and gather personnel. That would make those areas legitimate targets. Can you prove a) there were no military targets there, or b) the attackers were "aware" there were no military targets there? I can't - nobody can. That's why when you…

Just look at the facts. russians aren't bombing civillian areas because they are legitimate targets, but because they want to and are encouraged to kill as many civillians as possible. How do you explain Bucha? Were the civillians who were shot also 'legitimate targets'? It's not 'choosing sides' and 'framing events', russia started this war and russia is the bad guy in this war. Why does anyone have to prove anythin…

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#313

Post by notjustanymike » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

moritz64 wrote: post #209

A quite recent UX disaster at Paypal. The Paypal iOS app used to behave strange with numbers. The interface was designed that you had to type in the amount you wanted to send in cents. If you wanted to send USD 50, you had to type 5000. Paypal then would add a comma after the second digit from the right. What made it even stranger: The numbers were aligned right, so it had the feeling of typing backwards. I never rea…

Out of all places, Bank of America actually does this right. Any large wire transfer requires re-entering your credentials.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#314

Post by thereddaikon » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #94

I wonder when a tesla will show up in a courtroom with a situation like this. I'm not talking about autopilot. I'm talking about the continuous (past ridiculous) removal of physical controls from their vehicles. For example, the original model S/X had dedicated controls for lots of functions - turn signals, gear shift, wipers, autopilot, steering wheel tilt, etc. On the steering wheel, there were two buttons and a sc…

IIRC they got in trouble in Germany for this already because certain controls were mandated by law to be a certain way and they flaunted it. I just bought a new car and a make or break decision for me was the control layout. Too many automakers jumped on the touchscreen bandwagon. Its fine for some things like android auto. But all touchscreen all the time was stupid in star trek and stupid in real life. Having physical controls for things like the lights, wipers and hvac is critical.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#315

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

dataworm wrote: post #273

klibertp wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't bother. Seriously. You won't convince anyone irrational enough to generalize hundreds of thousands of people into "russian soldiers are evil nazis, not normal people" with rational arguments. The only way to convince such people (that peace is better than killing) is to subject them to long-term, consistent propaganda, but... The only forces capable of doing that are interested in pretty much exactly the opposi…

There really isn't more to the story. russia has been oppressing and killing Ukrainians since the creation of the russian empire. They have only stopped for a brief period after the fall of the USSR. You are claiming there are no nazis. So Nazi Germany was fiction? russians are nazis, just look on the internet. Monsters do exist - war criminals, mass murderers, brutal dictators. Not all people are regular humans and…

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#316

Post by ponector » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

dataworm wrote: post #273

klibertp wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't bother. Seriously. You won't convince anyone irrational enough to generalize hundreds of thousands of people into "russian soldiers are evil nazis, not normal people" with rational arguments. The only way to convince such people (that peace is better than killing) is to subject them to long-term, consistent propaganda, but... The only forces capable of doing that are interested in pretty much exactly the opposi…

There really isn't more to the story. russia has been oppressing and killing Ukrainians since the creation of the russian empire. They have only stopped for a brief period after the fall of the USSR. You are claiming there are no nazis. So Nazi Germany was fiction? russians are nazis, just look on the internet. Monsters do exist - war criminals, mass murderers, brutal dictators. Not all people are regular humans and…

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#317

Post by thereddaikon » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #225

ImaCake wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not just Tesla. Recent Jeep models have a digital speedometer with no analog backup. From an engineering perspective these changes just introduce needless risk of complex failure for no real gain. Surely the speedometer is not the make or break cost item on a car?

> these changes just introduce needless risk of complex failure for no real gain Analog speedometers are more complex and can’t be patched OTA. Eliminating them from the fleet means one less part to procure and inventory for manufacturing and service. Given the downside is losing precise speed awareness (you should still be able to judge rough speed visually—that’s the back-up), this seems like a fair trade-off. Cont…

Why do cars need to be patched OTA? Why isn't the code for something as mission critical as a car not written right before it was shipped? I never needed an ECU update on a car before? And my infotainment rarely needed one to the point where the handful of times it did get a firmware update it was handled during servicing just fine.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#318

Post by dataworm » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

klibertp wrote: post #302

dataworm wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really isn't more to the story. russia has been oppressing and killing Ukrainians since the creation of the russian empire. They have only stopped for a brief period after the fall of the USSR. You are claiming there are no nazis. So Nazi Germany was fiction? russians are nazis, just look on the internet. Monsters do exist - war criminals, mass murderers, brutal dictators. Not all people are regular humans and…

> Where did you get this unicorns pooping rainbows bullshit? It's called "humanism," and it's not bullshit. It mostly says that killing people is wrong. Of course, you think otherwise, so it might seem like bullshit to you. EDIT: > So Nazi Germany was fiction? No. The notion that all soldiers fighting on the Germany side in WW2 were monsters is, however. If the world subscribed to your ideology, there'd be a catacomb…

> The notion that all soldiers fighting on the Germany side in WW2 were monsters is, however. If the world subscribed to your ideology, there'd be a catacomb of millions buried under Nurnberg (there's no such thing, if you wondered).

Where did I say that all soldiers fighting for Germany in WW2 were monsters? I invoked Nazi Germany because you said there are no nazis and monsters and everyone is a regular human.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#319

Post by dataworm » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

klibertp wrote: post #302

dataworm wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really isn't more to the story. russia has been oppressing and killing Ukrainians since the creation of the russian empire. They have only stopped for a brief period after the fall of the USSR. You are claiming there are no nazis. So Nazi Germany was fiction? russians are nazis, just look on the internet. Monsters do exist - war criminals, mass murderers, brutal dictators. Not all people are regular humans and…

> Where did you get this unicorns pooping rainbows bullshit? It's called "humanism," and it's not bullshit. It mostly says that killing people is wrong. Of course, you think otherwise, so it might seem like bullshit to you. EDIT: > So Nazi Germany was fiction? No. The notion that all soldiers fighting on the Germany side in WW2 were monsters is, however. If the world subscribed to your ideology, there'd be a catacomb…

> It's called "humanism," and it's not bullshit. It mostly says that killing people is wrong. Of course, you think otherwise, so it might seem like bullshit to you. Where did I say that killing people is right? War criminals should be executed for their actions, but I'm not saying that every russian should be killed.

You are saying that there are no evil people and that everyone is a regular human. Then what about concentration camp commandants, mass murderers, war criminals? Do you think they are no worse than normal people, and deserve to live a good life? Then what you're saying is definitely bullshit.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#320

Post by thereddaikon » Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

dontlaugh wrote: post #49

locallost wrote: post #29

Everything's possible, but there would be no debate about UI mistakes if it was Iran shooting down a US plane. They would've done because they are evil by nature, or at least perceived as such. In that case the media and the public buys into its own reality, but of course the UI discussion could be a distraction from the public maybe starting to question if that's actually the reality. Also from the Wiki page about t…

Also, what was the US navy even doing there? The Persian Gulf is nowhere near the US. It's as if Iran had their navy parked on the US east coast, it would be seen as an outrage immediately.

One of the main jobs of the USN is to protect commercial shipping lanes. This is of US national interest because a lot of commerce flows through international shipping lanes. Its not unique to the US either. Its a historical duty of most nation's blue water navies. The persian gulf does not belong to Iran. Its international waters. But they have a history of using piracy in the persian gulf as a tool of the state and generally acting a destabilizing force in the area. So the US, and other nations often patrol the region to protect civilian shipping.