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The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

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191–200 of 695 posts

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#191
post #127

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Missing from your narrative is the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli settlers. The settlers are harassing and seizing land from Palestinians. Those settlers are protected by the Israeli Defense Forces. All of this is well documented and are repeatedly criticised by many well reputable human rights organisations. So, no, it's not restrain that is rewarded by these savage attacks. And while I condemn the ter…

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#192
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One only has to see the differences between NATO bombing of serbian power stations vs the russians doing the same with Ukraine, or Israel killing children in gaza vs russian killing children vs the US killing afghan or Iraqi children. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/25/us/crew-of-cruiser-that-d...

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War is rarely about morals. But if they did drop them, we would be talking about casualties 20-30 times higher.

This isn't about morals, since that would demand that every death is one too many. Killing just as many Palestinians as Jews were killed would be a fundamentally unmoral justification as well.

I think there is different expectation towards Israel, every country would have reacted to an attack like it happend to it and I don't see an alternative to topple the regime in Gaza.

The blockade of essentials is questionable, if done for an extended time. The previous blockade of goods wasn't though, it was requested by the PA and Egypt as well. Arguably it wasn't thorough enough.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#193

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It's not really a UX error when your helicopter-carrier invades Iran after one of your helicopters invaded Iran. In wartime. What were these warships even doing in the PERSIAN gulf? And why do they shoot Iranian airplanes in Iranian airspace while they themselves are in Iran? I image "UX error" wouldn't cut it if a chinese missile cruiser shot down an US airliner while steaming up the Hudson.

these warships even doing in the PERSIAN gulf Iran doesn't own the PERSIAN gulf any more than India owns the INDIAN ocean.

Sure, so if a Iranian helicopter carrier parked itself in international waters near New York City, everyone would be totally chill with that right?

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#195

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That’s a stupid comparison because the USSR intentionally shot down a plane without trying to contact it and then didn’t cooperate at all on search efforts. Additionally, the pilot positively identified it was a passenger jet due to the double decker windows but shot anyway because they were shooting down “spy planes”, not anything that was an actual threat. This is in contrast to the US incident where they tried to…

It's not stupid. All governments and militaries use propaganda. You'd be a fool to believe anything they say, no matter which country it is. The absolute truth of what happened is unreachable to us, we can only try to piece together a coherent version of the events after the fact. Government narratives are notoriously unreliable sources to base such an understanding upon.

Propaganda doesn't mean its necessarily a lie or misleading. Its just government marketing. It can be truthful or deceitful.

Back to the core issue of accidental shootdowns. I think its important to note that while these tragedies have continued to happen after the US incident in the 80's, none of them involved the US military since. That does lead credibility to their claim it was a UI and procedural problem that was fixed. Both Iran and Russia have shot down civilian air liners in the 21st century. In Russia's case it was 2014 in Ukraine and was judged a war crime by the courts. The man responsible, Igor Girkin, is wanted and likely will never leave Russia for fear of arrest. In Iran's case they accidentally shot down their own airliner in their own air space a few years back. I don't know what became of that.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#196
post #14
post #2

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I tried to feed it to archive.ph but they actively hide the content with javascript too. Mastodon folks really don't like people without javascript.

Mastodon folks don't seem to like anyone. They've removed discoverability features before because they don't like discoverability. Thankfully, there's Pleroma and other alternatives.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#197
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One only has to see the differences between NATO bombing of serbian power stations vs the russians doing the same with Ukraine, or Israel killing children in gaza vs russian killing children vs the US killing afghan or Iraqi children. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/25/us/crew-of-cruiser-that-d...

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Even Germany seems to have given up its claimed "never again!" morals.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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If you're seriously suggesting that attacking unarmed civilians intentionally, killing parents in front of their children and then kidnapping the children, slaughtering defenseless party-goers, etc. is what I any resistance movement would do, that's ridiculous. If Hamas would only have attacked military targets, there would be no legitimacy to Israel's actions. However, what actually happened was that they attacked p…

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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If you're seriously suggesting that attacking unarmed civilians intentionally, killing parents in front of their children and then kidnapping the children, slaughtering defenseless party-goers, etc. is what I any resistance movement would do, that's ridiculous. If Hamas would only have attacked military targets, there would be no legitimacy to Israel's actions. However, what actually happened was that they attacked p…

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isreal has been trying to keep their morals for decades using defensive measures. They constructed probaby best in the world air defense systems to protect their civilians daily. They could just send one rocket for one they were targetted by instead and Gaza would be inhabitable decades ago. So when they were rewarded for their restraint on 7 Oct with savagery I'm not really surprised that huge part of the world give…

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This is not a valid comparison.

Yes, some Palestinians were displaced, even more Jews were displaced at the same time. Even by total numbers, which is hard, since Jews are always a minority and even if you don't count European Jews and just look at the surrounding countries.

One injustice doesn't excuse the other, but people need to move on. Germans did need to part with land as well.

The stolen property story would need some correcting here.

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