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The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

kiwihellenist.blogspot.com

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Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#171

Post by spacebacon »

mastazi wrote: post #168
tsimionescu wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote from the original source of the "rope" claim, Cyril, is pretty explicit: > ‘camel’: he doesn’t mean the pack animal here, but the thick rope, with which sailors bind anchors. He shows that the situation isn’t absolutely permanent, but makes the matter extremely difficult for him in future, and for the present, close to and neighbouring on impossibility. Cyril explicitly considers that replacing "camel" with…

EDIT: I misunderstood your comment originally. My response was based on that misunderstanding. I removed it. Also, I should not have suggested that the author might be in bad faith.

The size of synthetic fibers used in nautical ropes can vary widely depending on the material and manufacturer. However, the diameter of individual synthetic fibers typically ranges from micrometers (1,000 nanometers = 1 micrometer) to tens or hundreds of micrometers, depending on the specific type of synthetic fiber and its intended use in rope-making.

The average eye of a needle typically ranges in size from about 300 to 800 nanometers in diameter, depending on the needle's gauge or size. This can vary slightly based on the needle's purpose and manufacturing specifics, but generally, it's within this nanometer range.

While at first blush it may seem impossible to thread the nautical rope through one strand at a time one must consider that a method to achieve this delicate task using specialized tools like a needle threader or a microscope-guided threading technique is feasible.

These tools can help manipulate and guide the 10-micrometer strand through the 800-nanometer eye of the needle with precision and accuracy.

But you may still be wondering how so allow me to elaborate…

Generally, nylon is known for its high elasticity, with a stretch capacity ranging from 10% to 40% or more of its original length before breaking, making it a popular choice for ropes requiring flexibility and shock absorption.

I propose a slow and steady heated and compressed stretch wins this race nine times out of ten.

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#172

Post by mastazi »

spacebacon wrote: post #171
mastazi wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: I misunderstood your comment originally. My response was based on that misunderstanding. I removed it. Also, I should not have suggested that the author might be in bad faith.

The size of synthetic fibers used in nautical ropes can vary widely depending on the material and manufacturer. However, the diameter of individual synthetic fibers typically ranges from micrometers (1,000 nanometers = 1 micrometer) to tens or hundreds of micrometers, depending on the specific type of synthetic fiber and its intended use in rope-making. The average eye of a needle typically ranges in size from about…

Sure but this is not easier than putting a camel in an industrial sized juicer and then pass the camel, in liquid form, through the needle's eye.

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#173

Post by anonymous_sorry »

tsimionescu wrote: post #145
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont understand why people refuse to take this line as literally as possible - A rich person has as much chance of entering heaven as a camel has of passing through the eye of a needle. Its just a humorous way of saying "fat chance" ... why read into it so much. Never made any sense to me.

The reason why people don't want to take this line literally is very simple: they don't want to believe that they can't live a life of luxury and still go into heaven. If you're both a believer and rich, you can either live with the cognitive dissonance, renounce your faith, or just reinterpret the precepts you don't like to suit you.

There are some lyrics by a band called the Divine Comedy (how apposite) that used to make me smile:

The cars in the churchyard are shiny and German

(Distinctly at odds with the theme of the sermon),

And during communion I study the people

Threading themselves through the eye of the needle.

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#174

Post by spacebacon »

mastazi wrote: post #172
spacebacon wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size of synthetic fibers used in nautical ropes can vary widely depending on the material and manufacturer. However, the diameter of individual synthetic fibers typically ranges from micrometers (1,000 nanometers = 1 micrometer) to tens or hundreds of micrometers, depending on the specific type of synthetic fiber and its intended use in rope-making. The average eye of a needle typically ranges in size from about…

Sure but this is not easier than putting a camel in an industrial sized juicer and then pass the camel, in liquid form, through the needle's eye.

Touché

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#176

Post by KMag »

emodendroket wrote: post #160
re wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, the word for camel is gamlo (ܓܐܡܠܐ) while the word for rope is gamla (ܓܐܡܠܥ). The blog author briefly references this Aramaic theory in his post and says that it has been similarly debunked, linking to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf0Fm8aVApk The supposed Aramaic word for rope doesn't appear in any sources until the 10th century CE and is derived at that time fro…

I have to admit that the fact that various commentators suggest THREE different languages happen to have words for camel and rope that sound almost the same does rather bolster the case being made here. Someone want to suggest a seafaring rope known as kyummel or something?

First of all, Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, Greek, English, etc. all have very similar words for camel/gimel/gamal/etc. (The Greek letter Gamma and the Hebrew/Phoenician letter Gimel derive from a drawing of a camel's head. Though, it's probably originally derives from a drawing of a boomerang-like hunting stick with a rhyming name in Demotic, and "throwing-stick" probably got switched to "camel" when the Phoenicians adapted the Demotic alphabet.) The word for camel got borrowed pretty readily as cultures came into contact with camels.

It wouldn't be at all unusual for all three languages to have a very similar rare word for rope if the word at least originally meant a (rarely made) type of rope made of camel's hair.

A couple decades ago, I was told that this saying was an intentional play on words between an Aramaic word for a rope made of camel's hair rhyming with the Aramaic word for camel, to make the saying more memorable.

It's a bit sad to hear it was probably made up rather than clever word play.

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#177

Post by spacebacon »

tsimionescu wrote: post #152
galaxyLogic wrote: post #105

This may be a bit un-orthodox, but I think there is some sense in Trinity if you interpret it properly: "Father" is the concrete DNA that creates each of us. "Son" is each individual that manifests that DNA. "Holy Ghost" is the whole INFORMATION in the DNA-population which gives rise to different concrete DNA strands. They are all manifestations of the same thing.

You're trying to find a contrived scientific notion of trinitarianism, which is a belief that is built out of the long history of Judaism and Christianity. How does this make any sense? If you don't believe Jesus was an actual person, or that God the Father gave stone tablets to Moses, what does the trinity even mean to you? And if you do believe in these things, how is "DNA" a satisfying explanation for the Father w…

True… the moment you do not accept that Jesus Christ is the walking and breathing incarnation of God is the moment you completely deny Christianity within the scope of the solidified Christian belief system. It is more realistic for the Christian to accept Jesus Christ was an alien, the Holy Ghost is a tractor beam, and God is the flying purple people eater at that point.

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#178

Post by gwd »

anonymous_sorry wrote: post #88
booleandilemma wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking why Jesus, the guy who speaks in parables, would use a metaphor to make a point?

The point is it doesn't make sense. "It's easier for a rich man to enter heaven than to park their Range Rover in a smallish garage". So... slightly tricky but perfectly doable? It's not an interesting enough thing to record/claim Jesus to have said. And why then are the disciples said to be so shocked and confused by the metaphor? "Woah there Jesus, you're saying it'll take a rich man a good 5 minutes of manoeuvring…

The way I heard the "needle gate" interpretation is:

1. A camel normally is tall, covered in a tarp / saddle, and loads of baggage.

2. To get through the Needle Gate, a camel needs to take off all his baggage, saddle, and tarp, and then crawl through on his knees

3. So with a rich man: To get into heaven, he must take off all his worldly baggage (i.e., stop loving his wealth) and humble himself by crawling in on his knees.

So at a certain level it does make sense; there is a sense in which that's exactly what Jesus asked the Rich Young Ruler to do.

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#179

Post by spacebacon »

Nition wrote: post #101
hot_gril wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've repeatedly noticed an even worse practice on anything news-related on Reddit: Top-rated comments saying "the title is misleading" when it actually isn't. I don't know if they skimmed the article way too quickly or were just trying to call it fake news because they didn't like it. Anyway, deleted my account there and haven't gone back in a few months.

It's a funny thing psychologically. I think it makes us feel smart to upvote the person saying it's all nonsense. Feels like now we're one level up in understanding. And that feeling makes it even harder to think about how maybe the comment is wrong and the article/title was right after all.

I assume most everyone here on their free and unpaid time is here for entertainment purposes. Why waste time reading an article if the title already provides enough entertainment for a creative dialog?

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#180

Post by starcraft2wol »

tsimionescu wrote: post #145
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont understand why people refuse to take this line as literally as possible - A rich person has as much chance of entering heaven as a camel has of passing through the eye of a needle. Its just a humorous way of saying "fat chance" ... why read into it so much. Never made any sense to me.

The reason why people don't want to take this line literally is very simple: they don't want to believe that they can't live a life of luxury and still go into heaven. If you're both a believer and rich, you can either live with the cognitive dissonance, renounce your faith, or just reinterpret the precepts you don't like to suit you.

Now read the next verse.
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