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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#351

Post by karles »

belltaco wrote: post #136
karles wrote: post #45

Welcome to Scandinavia! We hope you enjoy your stay.

They're enjoying the stay, they just won in court. The court just ordered the agency to hand over the license plates to Tesla within a week. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreri...

License plates? Fuck that.

This is about all the mechanics at their facilities. I think Tesla underestimates just how big a role Unions play in Nordic countries.

Give them their license plates - who cares. The Union(s) of the mechanics will strike for 500 years if they have to.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#352

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

jacquesm wrote: post #170
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #163

On a related note, I think you have to consider very carefully whether or not you can manufacture in Sweden. For some companies like Teenage Engineering, Elektron, etc.,it can make a lot of sense as your labor cost is such a small fraction of the total value of the product. But if you are in some kind of competitive market where the labor cost has the potential to erase your margins (and therefore return on the proje…

Sweden has been making cars for almost 100 years now.

Read this.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/11/job-losses-likely-at-vw...

And I don't think Volvo is in much different condition.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#353

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

einr wrote: post #217
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #163

On a related note, I think you have to consider very carefully whether or not you can manufacture in Sweden. For some companies like Teenage Engineering, Elektron, etc.,it can make a lot of sense as your labor cost is such a small fraction of the total value of the product. But if you are in some kind of competitive market where the labor cost has the potential to erase your margins (and therefore return on the proje…

But if you are in some kind of competitive market where the labor cost has the potential to erase your margins (and therefore return on the project investment) then I don't think it makes sense in this globalized economy to base in Sweden. Where do electric vehicles fall on this spectrum? I don't know TBH. I would suspect the Model S and Model X it doesn't matter really ... but say for batteries or the Model 3 ... ma…

This is a heavily subsidized project situated by geopolitical concerns ... not a practical calculus based on economics.

Even so, even after so much government coddling, it has an uphill battle for raw materials and labor flexibility.

I wish it well as its one of the few Western projects that can rival the gigafactories of China. Its a very bad outcome for the democracies of the world if China remains the only hardware supplier for our automated and electric world.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#354

Post by scottyah »

hutzlibu wrote: post #308
scottyah wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm listening, what do you mean by that?

Many different, independent groups voluntarily decided to support other workers in their fight for fair working conditions against an international megacorp, which is supported by their law. That is to me the literal opposite definition of corruption.

Seems like one anti-Tesla (or EV in general, we can't tell from the article) group is leveraging their network of existing Union pacts and loopholes in the law to withhold license plates from waiting customers.

Are the "independent groups" you're talking about the very connected Unions?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#355

Post by s1artibartfast »

hatsix wrote: post #336
s1artibartfast wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stealing or withholding property is not a legitimate form of striking. If you don't want to deliver something, fine, but you can't stop someone from picking it up themselves

Welcome to Sweden, where unions and corporations determine the rules, and the government tries to stay out of it.

Which is actually a great system in my opinion. However, the government does still have to step in if the parties break law.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#356

Post by stcredzero »

tuukkah wrote: post #294
stcredzero wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Force majeure trumps all obligations. Making unions a "Force majeure" basically gives them the ability to smite as if they were gods. European states have recently developed this annoying habit of "protecting" the rights of citizens, but then leaving loopholes that render the protections null and void. By recently, I mean since the early 20th century. The Weimar Republic is the poster child of that.

Companies are not citizens.

Workers at Tesla ARE citizens. The ones who voted against the collective bargaining agreement are the ones being forced against their will, using tactics reminiscent of strike-breakers from the 1900s.

Also, the reference has more to do with European laws being crafted with such exceptions, not whether they apply to natural persons or corporations.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#357

Post by stcredzero »

aaomidi wrote: post #346
stcredzero wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worker unions are a lot better at making the voices of workers heard and actuated on. Then why in this case are they violating consensuality and trying to impose the collective agreement on the Tesla worker pool from outside?

Because workers having each others backs is actually a good thing? It effectively creates a powerful voice of literally everyday people who are working. Solidarity strikes is the real power of worker unions.

Because workers having each others backs is actually a good thing?

Then why don't they have the backs of the majority of Tesla workers who didn't want the agreement? Are some workers more equal than others?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#358

Post by akaij »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #340
fastasucan wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not stealing or withholding the property - they are refusing to deliver it. They are not stopping someone from picking it up, postnord is. It would be weird for any carrier to allow outsiders to enter their premises.

There are two defendants: postnord and the state agency. Postnord should not refuse to let Tesla collect the plates that Postnord has. That would be theft

How is it theft? Nobody is touching the plates.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#359

Post by akaij »

codersfocus wrote: post #319
orwin wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, sorry i wasn't clear, but consumer protection laws spawns across all EU (i think it's more than that, even Switzerland is in that agreement), so if Tesla do not respect Swedish warranties, Tesla would be at risk in the whole EU. And Eu is not the US. Some young people might like and follow Musk and his venture a lot, but most people just do not care about him, and when it comes to consumer laws, EU do not joke a…

EU sucks ass for consumer protection. I bought an overengineered EU designed electric plug adapter in Paris. It wouldn’t work without applying 10kg of force to insert my charger, which it broke doing so. Store wouldn’t offer a refund only replacement. Only got a refund after I made the clerk test the replacement which also had the same issue. Same happened with floss that was the thickness of shoelace. Tried to retur…

If you didn't involve the authorities to exercise your rights, it sounds more like anecdotal experiences with those particular stores than the entire EU "sucking ass".

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#360

Post by jacquesm »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #352
jacquesm wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden has been making cars for almost 100 years now.

Read this. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/11/job-losses-likely-at-vw... And I don't think Volvo is in much different condition.

So?

That has nothing to do with whether or not quality vehicles can be produced in Sweden, and whether or not the European attitude towards labor is unsustainable.

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