In 400 years, people could be interpreting the Harry Potter series similarly.
They already are. And not just deep in the Harry Potter fandom, but in bitter, highly public schisms over the meaning.
The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
21–30 of 298 posts
Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
#22In Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, the word for camel is gamlo (ܓܐܡܠܐ) while the word for rope is gamla (ܓܐܡܠܥ). Mixing these up would be an easy mistake to make.
Matthew and Luke both took some info from Mark but also took some info from the Q source and their own sources. Since all three have this same wording, it is likely the error came through Mark.
Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
#23Well, in context, Jesus has just said you must come as a child. And He finishes with those who would be first shall be last. Children aren't focused on money and they were always last. It's hard to be childlike (totally dependent) when you think you're autonomous and wealth tends to solidify the illusion of autonomy. I don't think the literal meaning of the Greek word matters that much to grasp the meaning of the acc…
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Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
#24I don't buy the idea that changing camel to rope is about pleasing rich people, because a rope can still nowhere near get through the eye of a needle.
But a rope is qualitatively the same kind of thing as a thread; so if camel is the right word, the message is that what gets into the kingdom of God is a whole different kind of thing than money.
Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
#25In 400 years, people could be interpreting the Harry Potter series similarly.
It's happening already. See the popular podcast "Harry Potter and the Sacred Text" in which they read Harry Potter as some people read the Bible.
Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
#26Well apparently the same analogy is used in the Quran as well. https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=7&verse=40
Yes, some aspects of Islam seem to be based on the views of the Ebionites, an early Christian sect who used a Hebrew version of Matthew (instead of Greek) and whose beliefs about Jesus (not God, didn't actually die, etc.) ended up in Islam.
We say now “some sect”, but today’s mainstream Trinitarians were also considered “just some sect” in Early Christianity.
It has turned out to become the mainstream view, but really trinitarianism and antitrinitarianism are both valid views of Christianity and Islam stems from the “back to the basics” antitrinitarian view.
While we’re at it, Judaism was also developed contemporarily with Christianity and not before (as is the mainstream view), because Judaism includes the teachings of the Rabbis.
The root is Middle Eastern monotheism.
Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
#27In Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, the word for camel is gamlo (ܓܐܡܠܐ) while the word for rope is gamla (ܓܐܡܠܥ). Mixing these up would be an easy mistake to make. Matthew and Luke both took some info from Mark but also took some info from the Q source and their own sources. Since all three have this same wording, it is likely the error came through Mark.
> In Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, the word for camel is gamlo (ܓܐܡܠܐ) while the word for rope is gamla (ܓܐܡܠܥ).
The blog author briefly references this Aramaic theory in his post and says that it has been similarly debunked, linking to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf0Fm8aVApk
The supposed Aramaic word for rope doesn't appear in any sources until the 10th century CE and is derived at that time from the same Cyril origin.
Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
#28Pace Aristippus (and the lentils), telling rich people what they want to hear is not a bad way to arrange for a stream of invites to fancy dinners.
I’m still scratching my head at that attribution of motive though.
“No, rich guys, what He meant to say is that it’s at least as hard as threading a rope through the eye of a needle. So rich guys like you just have to do that simple thing to get into heaven, easy peasy!”
‘Um, that … also seems really hard?’
“Yeah but not nearly as hard as a camel. Like whoaaa those things are bulky and not even the some domain as tailoring!”
‘Okay but it doesn’t seem all that meaningful to compare one impossibility to another. Like, is dividing 1 by 0 harder than dividing 0 by 0?’
“Look, I’m trying to shill for y’all, can I please just get the invites?”
Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
#29I know that the most recent biologists have been chiefly anxious to discover a very small camel. But if we diminish the camel to his smallest, or open the eye of the needle to its largest—if, in short, we assume the words of Christ to have meant the very least that they could mean, His words must at the very least mean this— that rich men are not very likely to be morally trustworthy. Christianity even when watered d…
Thanks for sharing. I did not know that and I did not grow up with much Christian influence (or any), but what this man writes is how I felt like for a long time deep inside. It resonates with me very much.
Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, some aspects of Islam seem to be based on the views of the Ebionites, an early Christian sect who used a Hebrew version of Matthew (instead of Greek) and whose beliefs about Jesus (not God, didn't actually die, etc.) ended up in Islam.
We say now “some sect”, but today’s mainstream Trinitarians were also considered “just some sect” in Early Christianity. It has turned out to become the mainstream view, but really trinitarianism and antitrinitarianism are both valid views of Christianity and Islam stems from the “back to the basics” antitrinitarian view. While we’re at it, Judaism was also developed contemporarily with Christianity and not before (a…
"Sect" isn't a pejorative term, at least not in this context.