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The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

kiwihellenist.blogspot.com

11–20 of 298 posts

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#11
I've never really understood the sentences following this quote.

> '[…] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.' They were greatly astounded and said to one another, 'Then who can be saved?' Jesus looked at them and said, 'For mortals it is impossible, but not for God; for God all things are possible.'

Why do the apostles seem to think that Jesus's words would make it difficult for anyone to be saved? Surely from what he's said it's obvious that poor people can be saved. And when Jesus says 'for God all things are possible', isn't he implying that some rich people might get into heaven? So why do people interpret the passage as Jesus saying this is impossible?

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#13
I'm predisposed to mysticism, so I probably read this passage a lot less mundanely than most. I'm also a minimalist and tend to view spiritual teachings as enigmatic ways of pointing out something obvious that we are conditioned to overlook. To me, this passage says: "You don't get to keep anything."

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#14

I've never really understood the sentences following this quote. > '[…] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.' They were greatly astounded and said to one another, 'Then who can be saved?' Jesus looked at them and said, 'For mortals it is impossible, but not for God; for God all things are possible.' Why do the apostles seem to think that…

Because it was thought that being rich meant you were close to God. If the people they thought were closest to God could scarcely be saved, then how could anyone else be? So the thinking goes. It's an argument a fortiori.

Of course Jesus' point was that the poor and sinners are much closer to the kingdom of God than the rich, hence their astonishment.

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#15

I've never really understood the sentences following this quote. > '[…] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.' They were greatly astounded and said to one another, 'Then who can be saved?' Jesus looked at them and said, 'For mortals it is impossible, but not for God; for God all things are possible.' Why do the apostles seem to think that…

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Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#16
post #12

Well apparently the same analogy is used in the Quran as well. https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=7&verse=40

Yes, some aspects of Islam seem to be based on the views of the Ebionites, an early Christian sect who used a Hebrew version of Matthew (instead of Greek) and whose beliefs about Jesus (not God, didn't actually die, etc.) ended up in Islam.

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#17
Well, in context, Jesus has just said you must come as a child. And He finishes with those who would be first shall be last.

Children aren't focused on money and they were always last. It's hard to be childlike (totally dependent) when you think you're autonomous and wealth tends to solidify the illusion of autonomy.

I don't think the literal meaning of the Greek word matters that much to grasp the meaning of the account.

The analysis at least assumes Jesus said it and it was recorded in 3 Gospels. If one starts with that, Jesus (Whomever one believes He was [1]) meant something, used some word, and the listeners understood what He meant enough to ask a follow-up question.

In his advice to Timothy, Paul warns how a focus on words in an effort to "gain" is harmful:

"[He] is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world." 1 Tim 6:4-6

I think it ties in nicely with what Jesus said about how wealth/gain is often a hindrance to childlike humility, innocence, and trust.

[1] I agree with Peter when Jesus asked him "Who do you say that I am?"

Re: The camel, the rope, and the needle's eye

#19
post #4

Meh. You don't get (or stay) rich by being all that concerned about your fate in the hereafter. I'd say that the seriously rich (and serious wanna-bes) are far more interested in Matthew 4:8-9. And in doing whatever it takes, to hopefully receive such an offer themselves.

> You don't get (or stay) rich by being all that concerned about your fate in the hereafter. The Egyptian pharaohs might disagree. They seemed very interested in taking it with them, so to speak.

Including those that weren't quite as dead as they were
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