Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#51

Post by Goronmon » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 2:54 PM UTC

eur0pa wrote: post #46

AndriyKunitsyn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because technically, they didn't. As they say in the documentary, the version of the game that they made after the first year or so was bad, and they acknowledged it, and they changed their processes and introduced the "cabal" - so they basically paid that first year to gather experience. And what's important, their publisher Sierra was okay with it. I don't see that happening today, to be honest, in "AAA" titles at…

The problem is with these "AAA" games. I've spent a dozen years having great fun with perfectly enjoyable and memorable 7/10 games. Nowadays a 7/10 is a death sentence for a gaming studio. The industry is poisoned.

"Poisoned"? Or just more competitive? If you thought Half-Life was a "7/10" back in the day, what would you play instead? Quake? Unreal Tournament? Both were mainly multi-player games and not really a direct alternative.

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#52

Post by otikik » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 2:54 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #23

Sad reminder of the crunch, even when the result turns out to be a success. Hours like that pushed me out of modding and into boring old business software.

Yep. Web development provides a more pleasant, if perhaps less exciting, way of life than gamedev. And you can still do gamedev in your spare time (you have spare time!)

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#53

Post by qiine » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 2:54 PM UTC

nickpeterson wrote: post #25

epolanski wrote: post #2

One thing I have found extremely interesting was how Valve hit the jackpot with many early hires. It was literally people that often didn't even have a CS or let alone gaming background and yet so many of them proved to be relentlessly resourceful, creative and hard working. The guy who wrote most of the HL code wasn't even a developer and at the time was studying to become a lawyer or accountant iirc. I can't but th…

I’m sure all these people were talented, but it reinforces my own belief that the most important things are passion and focus. I feel like the tech world fixates on 10x programmers like Carmack, but motivated people can pull off amazing things.

they fixate on the Carmack's but forgot that the Romero's are important too !

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#54

Post by trash_cat » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

Excellent documentary. I suggest looking into the first part of Black Mesa [1] as well after the anniversary documentary, which is the remake of the original Half Life in source engine. The modders pick talk a lot about the stuff that the original developers talked about, and what challenges they faced in re-creating it.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_TcAxAKCAI

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#55

Post by Cthulhu_ » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

AndriyKunitsyn wrote: post #24

epolanski wrote: post #2

One thing I have found extremely interesting was how Valve hit the jackpot with many early hires. It was literally people that often didn't even have a CS or let alone gaming background and yet so many of them proved to be relentlessly resourceful, creative and hard working. The guy who wrote most of the HL code wasn't even a developer and at the time was studying to become a lawyer or accountant iirc. I can't but th…

Because technically, they didn't. As they say in the documentary, the version of the game that they made after the first year or so was bad, and they acknowledged it, and they changed their processes and introduced the "cabal" - so they basically paid that first year to gather experience. And what's important, their publisher Sierra was okay with it. I don't see that happening today, to be honest, in "AAA" titles at…

> I don't see that happening today, to be honest, in "AAA" titles at least.

Thanks for adding that caveat; it's an unfair comparison IMO to compare the well-selling games of 25 years ago with AAA games of today. Half-Life was built by a team of about 80 people according to a quick Google, and there wasn't the ecosystem of tooling, resources and outsourcing that we have today, versus hundreds if not thousands of people (if you include outsourcing / engines / etc) for AAA titles today. And the modern day game devs will have enjoyed a relevant education, whereas back then those educations didn't exist yet. Notably, John Carmack did a lot of ground work in translating math into 3D video game engines; he was behind Wolfenstein, then Doom, then Quake, and the Quake engine was used as the basis for Half-Life's.

Anyway, 80 people is pretty substantial even at the time; for comparison, indie hits like Hades had ~20 people working on it, Hollow Knight's Team Cherry has just 3 employees (but they used Unity so they didn't have to do much engine programming, and the ports to various consoles was outsourced); Wube (Factorio) has had a few dozen people working on it. "indie" hit Kingdom Come: Deliverance had like 240 people working on it.

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#56

Post by brezelnbitte » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 2:59 PM UTC

sovietmudkipz wrote: post #16

Game Dev in the 90s into the 00s seems absolutely wild.

This other recent documentary about NHL 94 is also fascinating. Explains why the game felt and played differently than any other sports game at the time. https://youtube.com/watch?v=NRFT3iQx1BY&si=k4Boaw4onAWNPy1P

This is produced by same crew as the Half-Life doc. SecretTape who produced HL doc is the for-hire arm of NoClip.

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#57

Post by beezlebroxxxxxx » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 3:00 PM UTC

dom96 wrote: post #33

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #19

“Lateness is a for a little while, suck is forever” is a good quote

It is a good quote, but does it apply as much in this day and age? There is at least one game that sucked at launch and now seems to be generally accepted to be good after months of work post-launch (I'm thinking of No Man's Sky, but maybe Cyberpunk 2077 is another one).

The quote still applies to NMS, or CP2007, because they failed to live up to the hype on release and that really left a stain on their legacy. It's fair to rejoinder that, well the games are pretty great now; but I think Gabe's meaning is really about how, from a business perspective, your product does not live up to its potential and this can have longtail business consequences.

In a way, studios have hyper-focused on pre-ordering in order to get around this. Games are now investments that eventually get fixed and "live up to" their cost, instead of a polished finished product. Studios and publishers now focus on pre-ordering over finishing.

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#58

Post by billfruit » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 3:00 PM UTC

Recently tried to re-play HL2. Found it was highly motion sickness inducing, possibly due to unnaturally fast change in perspective when turning. Had to give up very soon. Newer games tend to fare better in that respect.

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#59

Post by bitcharmer » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 3:02 PM UTC

eur0pa wrote: post #46

AndriyKunitsyn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because technically, they didn't. As they say in the documentary, the version of the game that they made after the first year or so was bad, and they acknowledged it, and they changed their processes and introduced the "cabal" - so they basically paid that first year to gather experience. And what's important, their publisher Sierra was okay with it. I don't see that happening today, to be honest, in "AAA" titles at…

The problem is with these "AAA" games. I've spent a dozen years having great fun with perfectly enjoyable and memorable 7/10 games. Nowadays a 7/10 is a death sentence for a gaming studio. The industry is poisoned.

Sadly today 9/10 just means the game is actually finished upon release.

Re: Half-Life: 25th Anniversary Documentary [video]

#60

Post by underlipton » Tue, Nov 28, 2023, 3:04 PM UTC

epolanski wrote: post #2

One thing I have found extremely interesting was how Valve hit the jackpot with many early hires. It was literally people that often didn't even have a CS or let alone gaming background and yet so many of them proved to be relentlessly resourceful, creative and hard working. The guy who wrote most of the HL code wasn't even a developer and at the time was studying to become a lawyer or accountant iirc. I can't but th…

That struck me, too. They really took a chance on so much staff, without any real proof that they'd be able to deliver. My impression was that this was a lot more common then than now. These days, you have to be capable of work a level or two above what's needed for shipping, presumably because management and timelines are so warped that you'll be rushed and overworked and still have to deliver. People starting out or shifting careers don't have anything like this kind of backing; you go it alone and hope that you're developing the skills necessary to get hired.