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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#221

Post by einr »

letmevoteplease wrote: post #202
aaomidi wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually democracy in action. Worker unions are a lot better at making the voices of workers heard and actuated on.

If a company is legally required to use PostNord and PostNord can legally refuse to deliver mail, it effectively gives PostNord the power to control any company that wants to continue receiving mail. Regardless of whether they are using that power for good or evil here, I don't think it's a power they should have.

Postnord as a company is not refusing anything. Some of the workers for Postnord are on strike.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#222

Post by einr »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #220
paulryanrogers wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal postage and large commercial shipments seem unrelated to me. Moreso if the former is via a government delivery service and the latter is via a private company.

To you perhaps, but not to universal postal service laws... " "The universal service obligation (USO) is the core of the Postal Services Directive (97/67/EC, amended by Directives 2002/39/EC and 2008/6/EC). This is the requirement that letters and parcels should be delivered to each home or business premises, on 5 days each week, throughout each EU country (with exemptions). " Tesla has a right to postal service in t…

Force majeure trumps all obligations. There is no law being broken here.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#223

Post by mytailorisrich »

einr wrote: post #222
mytailorisrich wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To you perhaps, but not to universal postal service laws... " "The universal service obligation (USO) is the core of the Postal Services Directive (97/67/EC, amended by Directives 2002/39/EC and 2008/6/EC). This is the requirement that letters and parcels should be delivered to each home or business premises, on 5 days each week, throughout each EU country (with exemptions). " Tesla has a right to postal service in t…

Force majeure trumps all obligations. There is no law being broken here.

What force majeure? Do you know what the term means?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#224

Post by 3np »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #220
paulryanrogers wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal postage and large commercial shipments seem unrelated to me. Moreso if the former is via a government delivery service and the latter is via a private company.

To you perhaps, but not to universal postal service laws... " "The universal service obligation (USO) is the core of the Postal Services Directive (97/67/EC, amended by Directives 2002/39/EC and 2008/6/EC). This is the requirement that letters and parcels should be delivered to each home or business premises, on 5 days each week, throughout each EU country (with exemptions). " Tesla has a right to postal service in t…

Did you read the reply to your previous duplicate comment before copy-pasting your now moot point in the current top thread?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38438450

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#225

Post by frosting1337 »

letmevoteplease wrote: post #202
aaomidi wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually democracy in action. Worker unions are a lot better at making the voices of workers heard and actuated on.

If a company is legally required to use PostNord and PostNord can legally refuse to deliver mail, it effectively gives PostNord the power to control any company that wants to continue receiving mail. Regardless of whether they are using that power for good or evil here, I don't think it's a power they should have.

Why not? They're a private company. Isn't that usually what Americans are telling people, that corporations are free to serve who they please?

But, more importantly, PostNord isn't doing anything - it's a unionised group of workers refusing to deliver Tesla products. That's how strikes work, and Musk's go-to course of action is to immediately proceed to legal action rather than negotiating and meeting the union's requirements.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#226

Post by frosting1337 »

okr wrote: post #209
cinntaile wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is undemocratic about a law in a democratic country? They can pick up their plates themselves for now, the lawsuit will decide what the law says.

Maybe being able to pick any other company to make the plates? For god sake, it is just a plate. A simple piece of metal with some letters on it to make everyone happy with traceability.

You realise, of course, that if another company was able to deliver the plates, the same issue would still be occuring thanks to Swedish unions being in solidarity?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#228

Post by HenryBemis »

martin8412 wrote: post #103
HenryBemis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the "what is the legal basis for..." I think Tesla is beginning a process to have their hinds (and stock price) protected. A businessman will not just raise his hands up in the air in despair and say "ok I will not proceed". No, he/Tesla is suing as they have every right to and if local/top Swedish court says "oops can't do anything" then they can easily escalate to a higher court (EU) will solve it for them. Mean…

The EU doesn't have a say in this matter.

It will if they go to court, Tesla loses and escalates each time. After the supreme court of Sweden you can take things to the EU court.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#229

Post by einr »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #223
einr wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Force majeure trumps all obligations. There is no law being broken here.

What force majeure? Do you know what the term means?

To answer in kind: yes, do you?

https://da.se/2023/11/totalstopp-for-nya-telsabilar-far-elon...

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure

"Med force majeure avses vanligen krig, upplopp, brand, naturkatastrofer (som översvämning, orkan, jordbävning), explosioner, strejk, nya lagar som förbjuder fullföljandet av avtalet, och liknande."

I'll assume you read Swedish since you seem to be an expert at the issue. If not, you can plug these into a translator yourself.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#230

Post by Spivak »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #212
jltsiren wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. (More generally, postal services in the EU tend to be structured as businesses these days, because they are in direct competition with various courier and package delivery services.) Also, while the employees may be on strike, ma…

Refusing to distribute mail to a specific recipient does not sound like a 'strike' in the sense of labour dispute to me. In France (often used a reference when it comes to striking...) that wouldn't be a legal strike, but obviously every jurisdiction is different. In any case, this also probably breaches EU law related to universal postal service, which states that mail must be delivered to every address 5 days a wee…

This is what sympathy strikes are, if you're a unionized commercial bakery who delivers to a unionized restaurant that's currently striking you don't go and strike against your own boss. That's silly. You refuse to cross the picket line and deliver goods and services to the business who's striking so they have a harder time operating.

That's like the entire point. They're so effective lots of places ban them which like... take that for what it's worth.

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