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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#81

Post by mort96 »

tmikaeld wrote: post #79

What if Tesla just pulled out of the country? Who's worst off? Sweden: - Loss of jobs, I don't know how many. (But the workers would prob. be quite bitter, they earned more with Tesla shops than standard shops) - May be bad for Swedish investments, since a union deal would now be mandatory. - Less electric cars, less good for the environment. - € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales. Tesla: - Loosing € ~350M/year (10K S…

> - Who'd in their right mind would do business in Sweden without a union deal now? No one.

That's the point?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#82

Post by jojobas »

paganel wrote: post #63
fastasucan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most probably the Swedes will cave in, after kindly being reminded that the >Russians are located just across the Baltic lake from them. >Interesting to think what will Musk give to the DC people in exchange. This is incredibly uninformed. Sweden is to important for NATO to care about helping Musk.

They're not even a de jure NATO member yet. But if you want "informed" opinion, I've just gone through this series of studies: "Military Strategy in the 21st Century - The Challenge for NATO" [1], where on page no. 415 there's an essay titled "Military Strategy in Denmark" by a guy called Petter Viggo Jakobsen, Associate Professor at the Institute for Strategy at the Royal Defence College, while on page no. 433 there…

This made a lot of sense before the Ukraine war. Russia doesn't have even 10k men to spare to start another "little victorious war" and won't for many years from now.

Let alone the simple facts that Russia doesn't even have a land border with Sweden and that its Baltic Fleet boasts a total of 1 (one) landing ship capable of reaching Swedish shores, and some 10 landing boats.

If Russia attacked Finland, Sweden and Norway at the same time it wouldn't be pleasant but Sweden would be last and least to suffer, and Russia just doesn't have anything at its disposal to commit to that at the moment.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#83

Post by TheChaplain »

r0ckarong wrote: post #18

Looks like the counter to "fuck your rules" has always been: "ok so no more commerce with you".

Rules? Collective agreements are entirely voluntary, by law.

What is happening is that the union is using connected companies to force Tesla to sign a collective agreement.

Employees are not prohibited from joining the union themselves, they are protected by law and Tesla can not stop them nor fire them for it.

From what I've read, the employees are quite happy as it is, and a collective agreement would actually make thing worse as it puts some restrictions on the relation between employer/employee.

Also not that Sweden is not US, there are a bunch of laws that protects workers, no matter if they are in a union or not.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#84

Post by robin_reala »

dajoh wrote: post #76

Why is this article at rank 324 (page 11) on the front page when it was posted 1 hour ago, has 33 points, and 70 comments currently. There's stuff on page 1 of the frontpage with 25 points, posted 8 hours ago, and has 5 comments.

There’s a ratio of comments to upvotes that triggers a flamewar nerf. In this case, there are double as may comments as upvotes.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#85

Post by Stranger43 »

larsnystrom wrote: post #47
lynx23 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Musk, I'd just shut down the whole operation in Sweden. It is not like the country is particularily big.

I believe this is what will happen. The Swedish unions can’t budge, and Elon won’t budge, so there’s really no other solution to this conflict.

Elon dont control Tesla the way he does X and have been consistently overruled by his the tesla board of directors so this will merely be another case of Elon loosing face.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#86

Post by tmikaeld »

mort96 wrote: post #81
tmikaeld wrote: post #79

What if Tesla just pulled out of the country? Who's worst off? Sweden: - Loss of jobs, I don't know how many. (But the workers would prob. be quite bitter, they earned more with Tesla shops than standard shops) - May be bad for Swedish investments, since a union deal would now be mandatory. - Less electric cars, less good for the environment. - € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales. Tesla: - Loosing € ~350M/year (10K S…

> - Who'd in their right mind would do business in Sweden without a union deal now? No one. That's the point?

Did I say it wasn't?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#87

Post by yread »

dajoh wrote: post #76

Why is this article at rank 324 (page 11) on the front page when it was posted 1 hour ago, has 33 points, and 70 comments currently. There's stuff on page 1 of the frontpage with 25 points, posted 8 hours ago, and has 5 comments.

People are tired of Tesla articles so they more often flag them. Flags bring articles down. These articles do often lead to flames so it's not without merit.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#88

Post by Jensson »

danpalmer wrote: post #43
abc123abc123 wrote: post #27

3 Chapter 1:st paragraph in the law concering postal delivery in sweden. Postnord has an obligation to deliver mail. Interesting to see what will rank higher in court. The postal law or the right to strikes.

Seems very likely the strike action will win out, otherwise there's no effective route to strike action from postal workers. Whether they aren't allowed to strike or Postnord is allowed to bring in non-union workers, both would neutralise any strike effectiveness, and given Sweden's strong labour laws it seems unlikely that would be the case. Another way of looking at it is that Postnord is not refusing as a policy t…

> and given Sweden's strong labour laws it seems unlikely that would be the case

Sweden doesn't have strong labour laws, Sweden just doesn't regulate union power that much. Unions are extremely powerful entities with no regulations so you have to limit it a bit, just like you have to limit the power of private corporations.

If a private corporation could block your access to essential government services then that would be a big problem, the same applies to unions. The government is supposed to be impartial in this case, a union shouldn't be allowed to block essential government services.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#89

Post by galangalalgol »

LegitShady wrote: post #56
galangalalgol wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the suit relates to the state enforced monopoly on license delivery? That I suppose makes more sense, but I can also see the argument that the license is an official document and hence must be delivered by official mail. Something vaguely similar is playing out in Texas. Paper plates are now illegal, and not without good reason (widely forged), but in the context of other laws passed at the same time it seems aime…

>but I can also see the argument that the license is an official document and hence must be delivered by official mail. There's no legal reason for this to be true, as far as I can tell. Official documents get handed out in person all the time.

I agree, this strike maybe just adds inconvenience for tesla owners?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#90

Post by mort96 »

tmikaeld wrote: post #86
mort96 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Who'd in their right mind would do business in Sweden without a union deal now? No one. That's the point?

Did I say it wasn't?

I thought you listed it as a negative effect. If that wasn't the point, I apologize, I misinterpreted.
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