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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#51

Post by HenryBemis »

Hamuko wrote: post #22
fwsgonzo wrote: post #7

The Swedish Transport Agency says they are only able to ship license plates using PostNord according to regulation, so I'm not sure how exactly Tesla thought they were going to win this lawsuit.

I feel like this is more performative and/or grasping at straws, kinda like the recent X Corp v Media Matters suit.

On the "what is the legal basis for..." I think Tesla is beginning a process to have their hinds (and stock price) protected. A businessman will not just raise his hands up in the air in despair and say "ok I will not proceed". No, he/Tesla is suing as they have every right to and if local/top Swedish court says "oops can't do anything" then they can easily escalate to a higher court (EU) will solve it for them. Meanwhile a higher court can slap Sweden with a beautiful fine i.e. "after 1/1/2025 you will be paying €1m per week until you resolve this.

There are many solutions to this problem, and Swedish post office being a sympathetic dick is not (imho) the right way.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#52

Post by LegitShady »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #27

3 Chapter 1:st paragraph in the law concering postal delivery in sweden. Postnord has an obligation to deliver mail. Interesting to see what will rank higher in court. The postal law or the right to strikes.

It depends on whats actually in the lawsuit. The regulations may say that about the mail in general, but Tesla might just argue the government MUST supply a non Postnord method of distribution if Postnord doesn't have to do it.

Also, Postnord as an organization is different than a trade union in postnord, etc.

The law is not a "the writing says this so its always this". Saying "postal law vs right to strikes" is a false dilemma. It might just mean "the government must allow an alternate distribution method for basic services if postnord has no obligation to deliver mail."

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#53

Post by vasvae3 »

INTPenis wrote: post #15
paganel wrote: post #9

[flagged]

That's the problem, neither side can cave. If the unions cave it will destroy the image of the Swedish model. If Tesla caves it will open the doors for unions around the world to oppose them. Either way this is a very interesting battle. As a Swede of course I hope that Tesla caves. One thing I cannot understand is people who are against worker's rights. Do they not understand that workers make up the majority of all…

[flagged]

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#54

Post by fsloth »

paganel wrote: post #9

[flagged]

Geopolitical jokes are fun only if they are cleverly silly and not just uninformed.

It’s open secret Sweden has had secret security guarantees from US for decades (probably part of agreement that Sweden will not develop their own nuclear strike capability).

This is not something US would back out of on a whimsy.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#56

Post by LegitShady »

galangalalgol wrote: post #23
cool_dude85 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This situation seems to involve the union/unions responsible for mail delivery, who refuse to deliver packages from Tesla, and by law all plates must be sent via mail.

So the suit relates to the state enforced monopoly on license delivery? That I suppose makes more sense, but I can also see the argument that the license is an official document and hence must be delivered by official mail. Something vaguely similar is playing out in Texas. Paper plates are now illegal, and not without good reason (widely forged), but in the context of other laws passed at the same time it seems aime…

>but I can also see the argument that the license is an official document and hence must be delivered by official mail.

There's no legal reason for this to be true, as far as I can tell. Official documents get handed out in person all the time.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#57

Post by ceejayoz »

vasvae3 wrote: post #49
ceejayoz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick up the plates from whom ? They don't just teleport into a stack in the parking lot of the post office on their own. A pickup would involve employees . Who are members of the union .

Whatever the equivalent of the DMV in Sweden is?

I'd presume those plates get from the license plate factory to the DMV offices somehow. I'd presume that method isn't carrier pigeon.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#58

Post by sakjur »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #27

3 Chapter 1:st paragraph in the law concering postal delivery in sweden. Postnord has an obligation to deliver mail. Interesting to see what will rank higher in court. The postal law or the right to strikes.

It’s possible PTS approves blockades as “exceptional circumstances” and exempts PostNord from their obligation to deliver mail to Tesla?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#59

Post by orwin »

lynx23 wrote: post #34
jesperlang wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is trying any means necessary since they know that Swedish labour laws are strong: if they do not have a union agreement, workers are allowed to strike (indefinitely). This vacuum we are now in is probably very costly for Tesla so I at this point I think it is an ideological/personal battle..

If I were Musk, I'd just shut down the whole operation in Sweden. It is not like the country is particularily big.

If he does that, he will have to do the same with norway, and probably Denmark too.

Also, Tesla will have to open-source his hardware, because it will have to respect warranties, and without transport/local Tesla shops, the only alternative will be conventional car shop, which right now cannot really serve Teslas, at least in France.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#60

Post by larsnystrom »

nxm wrote: post #46
kamranjon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe not such a great idea for Tesla to build one if they intended to take advantage of workers without repercussions?

No one takes advantage of them.

I have zero insight into how Tesla workers are treated here in Sweden, but it’s important to note that Sweden doesn’t even have a minimum wage law (it has been directly opposing such rules on an EU-level as well) because this should be negotiated between workers (unions) and employers. If Tesla continues to operate in Sweden without a collective agreement this model will break down.
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