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Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

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Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#51
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also very surprised at that line and I was wondering if I was the one who was out of touch or the Google team were. I haven't really looked into mobile development for a few years so it could very well be the case, but it stood out to me as unlikely considering the relative impopularity of Dart and the (to my estimation) very low hype profile of Flutter where developers hang out. But maybe they're right. I thin…

Tim was a director on Flutter until a few months ago and now works at Apple. That is, he has first hand knowledge of Flutter's numbers and now that he works for a competitor, no motivation to inflate Flutter's stats. Without getting into specifics (which I cannot share), Flutter is wildly successful in the market place and continues to grow YoY.

> Tim was a director on Flutter until a few months ago and now works at Apple. > > That is, he has first hand knowledge of Flutter's numbers and now that he works for a competitor, no motivation to inflate Flutter's stats.

Being the ex director of a project means you will always have a reason to inflate the stats of that project, even if it is just for personal pride. I don't see how Hickson leaving Google means he doesn't still have part of his work life tied to the project regardless of employer.

> Without getting into specifics (which I cannot share), Flutter is wildly successful in the market place and continues to grow YoY.

That's cool, but this is just more of the same and more of what people seem surprised by. Numbers don't really matter unless they're visible and verifiable.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#52
post #18

Flutter has three major problems: - Performance: Even on Desktop, animations have jank. Last I compiled samples on Mac, the problem was visibly there. - UX: Text editing immediately feels alien. If Mac for example, you have a text field in a native app and on the side you have a flutter app with a text field, you can tell the difference between the "feel" when you type in each. This isn't necessarily limited to text…

I do not see these as three major problems, simply because your arguments refer to use cases that very, very few Flutter developers actually care about. Flutter is a native mobile app framework.

I hope they solve the problems above, but it's not really anything that keeps Flutter developers awake at night.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#53
post #45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then, if you want to have a really cross-platform app, ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet? Or, otherwise said: if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche.

> if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche. No it is not. Mobile apps are thriving. It is desktop apps that are niche now. > ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet? Quite possibly yes.

I meant it's a small niche for Flutter to address only the apps that want to be cross-platform, don't want to invest into having "native" iOS and Android versions, but are Ok with using a different technology for desktop/web (or don't need those).

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#54
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment couldn't be more off-base. Hickson left Google for his own personal reasons. Not because Flutter is losing resources or that he was asked/assigned to work on something else. Google has not lowered the amount resources dedicated to Flutter. Ian started the Flutter project and it's hard to point to someone more important to Flutter's success than him. He continues to work on Flutter as does the entire Flut…

Fair enough. What is the impetus for this long, whinging thread that has been linked to, then? If it's not about Google at the very least not showing any confidence in Flutter it seems fairly hyperbolic.

You'd have to ask Tim

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#55
post #49

Isn't flutter supposed to also be the main way to develop UIs on google Fuschia ? Which is supposed to be the successor to android ? I'm surprised to see no mention of that aspect. Did i miss something ?

Is Fuschia meant to be anything more than an R&D project where some ideas get moved back to Android?

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#56
post #30
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter is mainly a mobile framework. Electron owns the desktop, anyone using flutter on the web is crazy. While you're points are valid, they are kind of irrelevant.

The marketing literature begs to differ. The Google's own Family Link app even on web[0] is also a Flutter app. [0]. https://familylink.google.com

That website breaks the back button, on Android...

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#57
post #32
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The marketing literature begs to differ. The Google's own Family Link app even on web[0] is also a Flutter app. [0]. https://familylink.google.com

Well marketing and reality is not the same thing.

Yes there's a mismatch. As a user one should dial down their expectations accordingly.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#58
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The marketing literature begs to differ. The Google's own Family Link app even on web[0] is also a Flutter app. [0]. https://familylink.google.com

Damn, what have we come to. I cant select text from a webpage. This is not what our grandfathers fought for :(

Developers have control, if text is selectable or not. https://api.flutter.dev/flutter/material/SelectableText-clas...

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#59
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim was a director on Flutter until a few months ago and now works at Apple. That is, he has first hand knowledge of Flutter's numbers and now that he works for a competitor, no motivation to inflate Flutter's stats. Without getting into specifics (which I cannot share), Flutter is wildly successful in the market place and continues to grow YoY.

> Tim was a director on Flutter until a few months ago and now works at Apple. > > That is, he has first hand knowledge of Flutter's numbers and now that he works for a competitor, no motivation to inflate Flutter's stats. Being the ex director of a project means you will always have a reason to inflate the stats of that project, even if it is just for personal pride. I don't see how Hickson leaving Google means he d…

Sure, personal pride might cause someone to continue to inflate stats even after leaving a project. I can't speak for Tim or his motives here.

It's completely reasonable to continue to be skeptical of these claims without public numbers.

FWIW, I was surprised by the numbers myself but it's above my pay grade to share them publicly or discuss specifics.

Re: Flutter seems to be having bad times internally

#60
post #53
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche. No it is not. Mobile apps are thriving. It is desktop apps that are niche now. > ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet? Quite possibly yes.

I meant it's a small niche for Flutter to address only the apps that want to be cross-platform, don't want to invest into having "native" iOS and Android versions, but are Ok with using a different technology for desktop/web (or don't need those).

It is not a small niche at all. A ton of things are mobile first/only.
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