Developer account removed by Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#211

Post by quitit » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

lapcat wrote: post #138

judge2020 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the main draws of iOS is its resistance to malware, adware, and outright scam apps. Requiring third party app stores disproportionately harms those that purchased the device specifically for these purposes (such as people at higher risks of being targeted by nation state actors). And this isn’t something that can be addressed with a new uber-secure product just for these people, because the EU will deem it a g…

> One of the main draws of iOS is its resistance to malware, adware, and outright scam apps. The crApp Store is full of scams. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/06/06/apple-a... https://www.wired.com/story/chatgpt-scams-apple-app-store-go... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/02/pig-b... https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2021/05/15/apple-ip... https://9to5mac.com/2022/01/11/develo…

I hear your argument, but it's not convincing.

Your logic states that because an app can occasionally slip through the review process, that we should remove -all- protections. That isn't better, that's worse.

A scam is also a relatively low bar to set for such drastic change, since scams also frequently occur over chat apps and the kinds of access that side-loading and 3rd party stores can avail opens the door to significantly more sophisticated malware. If you truly think the situation right now is bad, just wait until there are no protections for users.

You should also recognise that there is actual data for malware on these platforms. Every year Nokia drive home the same point for why Android has such an outsized share of malware: "...most smartphone malware is distributed as trojanized applications and since Android users can load application from just about anywhere, it’s much easier to trick them into installing applications that are infected with malware."

Since all experts point to the same sources of malware - perhaps that's not the change we should be legislating. How about we do something different.

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#212

Post by waprin » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

quitit wrote: post #175

Manuel_D wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't use the third party app store if you're worried about scams. Requiring that apple permit 3rd party app stores does not force users to use said 3rd part stores.

This sounds like a fair point until remembering that things like Boss-ware exist. An insurer/ health insurer, employer, government, etc will require it, and just like that the "just don't use them" crowd will hold up their hands and pretend that no one could have imagined this disaster. If the problem is truly Apple exhibiting favouritism or limiting competition through their app approval process: then the EU should…

If you’re required to install software on your phone for work then your employer should be legally required to pay for your phone. And then if you want your own phone you pay for it yourself. And if your employers IT team lets corporate devices get malware that’s on them. This is a weird edge case to get hung up on.

You’re making a very simple issue way more complicated than it needs to be. Having Apple spin out EU specific new corporate entities with unclear relationships to its parent company sounds extremely complex.

Requiring Apple to allow people to install apps they want on their own device is pretty simple and should be a fundamental expectation of a free society.

If normal user wants the walled garden Apple experience, that’s fine. Make it unintuitive to install third party apps. Require checking a big red disclaimer that you might brick your phone. But just have some sort of path where if party A made an app and party B wants it on the device they paid a lot of money for, they can do that without some unqualified drone in Cupertino blocking it .

Countless examples of the App Store review being broken , and just on principle, Apple has what’s effectively a monopoly on mobile phones in that you can’t make a mobile app and ignore iPhone and for them to unilaterally decide all software that’s allowed is way too much power.

Somehow Microsoft went to the Supreme Court for putting IE on the desktop but Apple is off the hook for a complete lockdown. At least you could download Netscape on Windows 95! What Apple is doing is like if AOL and AOL keywords became the only entry point to the web. Then you go on Hacker News and people say that’s s good thing because AOL only allows quality websites and otherwise people make malware and scam websites. It doesn’t matter, it’s too much power for one company and mobile phones are more critical to society in 2023 than the web was in the 90s. Mobile phones are not appliances.

It’s still unfathomable to me this is even a conversation on this website. Apples complete lockdown of the most important computing devices is plainly bad for consumers and society.

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#213

Post by victorbjorklund » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

mm263 wrote: post #152

mlyle wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, attempting to prevent money from flowing into a country which is actively waging war against neighbors is not racism.

He is in Chile. The company linked was liquidated in 2021 (including other companies called Sarafan that he created in the past). How did you deduce that money goes to Russia?

Can we guarantee that he has no family or friends in russia that he sends money to? Or that he hires russian contractors etc?

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#214

Post by otterley » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:16 PM UTC

If you truly believe you were treated unfairly against Apple, you think they are in breach of contract or violating the law, and they are threatening your livelihood, then sue them. Complaining on the Internet is unlikely to give you the relief you seek.

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#215

Post by madeofpalk » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:16 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #28

mortallywounded wrote: post #4

Something feels off... those apps don't seem like 33K/MRR worthy. I suspect some kind of manipulation was being done to... help?

I've never seen these apps before. I have no idea who this company is. But these icons, names, and type of apps I typically associate with trash behaviour I wish was removed from the app store. Like a Video Joiner Pro that lets you concat two videos, has a 1 week free trial and then $20/month subscription. Edit: Ahh yup, that's exactly what this is > A simple and convenient collage maker will help you make cool video…

I think the most charitable thing you can say is this developer played with fire - engaging in scummy subscription pricing tactics - and got burnt. Neither App Store nor this developer played honourably.

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#216

Post by 6510 » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:17 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #98

echelon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess the App Store fraud prevention team hasn’t necessarily found a good solution yet. The most essential device of the century is owned by two companies. The ability for them to completely control software and business activities on top of something that is almost as essential as public transportation is appalling. The DOJ needs to remove the "app store" racket for essential computing devices. Software needs to…

One of the main draws of iOS is its resistance to malware, adware, and outright scam apps. Requiring third party app stores disproportionately harms those that purchased the device specifically for these purposes (such as people at higher risks of being targeted by nation state actors). And this isn’t something that can be addressed with a new uber-secure product just for these people, because the EU will deem it a g…

The EU requires reviews from real customers and you have to describe how you are accomplishing this.

These alternative app stores will be infinitely more trust worthy than apple, amazon, google etc

If there is no payment or the trial is canceled one could use the digital id.

Apple could even gather some simple statistics. Opening the app and using it for 1 minute would be a special kind of review. You wouldn't count 1 star reviews like that until manual review-review confirms the app is really that bad.

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#217

Post by callalex » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

bornfreddy wrote: post #205

usrbinbash wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most essential device of the century is owned by two companies. As long as people play along, yes it is indeed. If more people were installing a free mobile OS, and thus take back ownership of their hardware and digital lives, the story would be much different. It's the same story with PCs. If you actually want to control the hardware you own, install Linux. It's not as if the alternatives to corporate control…

This. And it's not like there's no choice. The only pain point, if you want to completely get rid of A/G, is push notifications and some banking apps.

Those are the two primary things I use my phone for.

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#218

Post by shopvaccer » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

usrbinbash wrote: post #197

echelon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess the App Store fraud prevention team hasn’t necessarily found a good solution yet. The most essential device of the century is owned by two companies. The ability for them to completely control software and business activities on top of something that is almost as essential as public transportation is appalling. The DOJ needs to remove the "app store" racket for essential computing devices. Software needs to…

> The most essential device of the century is owned by two companies. As long as people play along, yes it is indeed. If more people were installing a free mobile OS, and thus take back ownership of their hardware and digital lives, the story would be much different. It's the same story with PCs. If you actually want to control the hardware you own, install Linux. It's not as if the alternatives to corporate control…

I don't think it's a fair comparison because in the PC market the bootloaders are (usually) unlocked and the firmware (usually) operates via an open standard like UEFI or BIOS... whereas in the smartphone market open bootloaders and firmware are the exception.

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#219

Post by prosody » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

LocalH wrote: post #62

sealeck wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In that scenario, Apple should have been more specific in their communications. Often AML policy prohibits this because it could be constituted as tipping off the offender.

This is garbage. Imagine if other law worked this way. "We're going to arrest you and put you in jail, but we won't tell you what you're accused of, nor give you a proper appeal." During an investigation, I get it. After charges have been leveled? Most certainly not .

In addition to what the sibling comment said, the developer does in fact have a recourse to the legal system, which they wrote that they are preparing to make use of. Attempts to analogize the TOS dispute mechanisms of companies to the legal system frequently fail to note that, at least where money is involved, they exist within the legal system, not in a bubble.

Re: Developer account removed by Apple

#220

Post by quitit » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 7:19 PM UTC

waprin wrote: post #212

quitit wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a fair point until remembering that things like Boss-ware exist. An insurer/ health insurer, employer, government, etc will require it, and just like that the "just don't use them" crowd will hold up their hands and pretend that no one could have imagined this disaster. If the problem is truly Apple exhibiting favouritism or limiting competition through their app approval process: then the EU should…

If you’re required to install software on your phone for work then your employer should be legally required to pay for your phone. And then if you want your own phone you pay for it yourself. And if your employers IT team lets corporate devices get malware that’s on them. This is a weird edge case to get hung up on. You’re making a very simple issue way more complicated than it needs to be. Having Apple spin out EU s…

I'm making a pretty valid point(note Android's outsized malware share) and we'll get to see it play out next year in the EU.

It's interesting to me that your core argument is about making a choice whether or not to embrace side-loading and 3rd party app stores. However aren't users making this choice when they buy the phone to begin with. Side loading and 3rd party app stores aren't a secret, many Android manufacturers use this as a selling point and include their own stores baked-in.

I'm somehow to believe that users are simultaneously clever and dumb - and I'm not buying it.