The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI • Hacker News Board

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#51

Post by A_D_E_P_T » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

speed_spread wrote: post #35

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Anthony Levandowski already try that? Thing is, it doesn't work. The primary purpose of religion is to tackle questions that are metaphysical in nature; to provide an explanation for the deep mysteries of life. To most believers, God isn't a comic book character that's worshipped solely because he is powerful -- He is worshipped as the first mover, the alpha and omega, beyond all constraint -- and the mere fac…

What if the AI was set to be the bridge between God and humanity? As a higher minded being, the AI certainly could connect with God in ways we couldn't and his Word would make scripture. At least that's how I'd frame it...

Well, first you've got to work out what you mean by "God" -- and, no matter how you do it, you're going to alienate 60% of your crowd.

Or you could use an AI to synthesize an entirely new religion, complete with its own distant god and its own completed metaphysics -- but that might be a hard sell. In this case, the AI itself is not the object of worship, but it takes upon itself the role of prophet and evangelist to some fiction it has concocted. It would be interesting, though, that's for sure.

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#52

Post by ben_w » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #24

ironyman wrote: post #3

Why do I get a feeling we are going to see an explosion of secular cults that have weird beliefs in AI and worship AGI?

Didn't Anthony Levandowski already try that? Thing is, it doesn't work. The primary purpose of religion is to tackle questions that are metaphysical in nature; to provide an explanation for the deep mysteries of life. To most believers, God isn't a comic book character that's worshipped solely because he is powerful -- He is worshipped as the first mover, the alpha and omega, beyond all constraint -- and the mere fac…

Christian God isn't the only model[0], plenty worshipped Dionysus, Amaterasu, Ra, and Xōchiquetzal.

[0] heck, given the echoes of polytheism from earlier eras, I'd argue that the entity in the Bible (especially the earlier parts) isn't even really the Christian God as seen today by self-identified Christians.

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#53

Post by idiotsecant » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #29

_ugfj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is. FTX collapses (November 2-11, 2022), crypto hustle-scam is over, the decision is made to release whatever there is at the moment at OpenAI to start the next cycle, a few weeks later (November 30, 2022) there we go. Same thing as always: some investors -- mostly white males -- get filthy rich meanwhile some others get exploited -- this time it's Kenyan workers -- and many, many people get hoodwinked a…

At least with anything AI there is something that anyone can use hands-on for actual legitimate work. Crypto/NFT failed to materialize any benefit beyond anonymous payments for drugs and other contraband.

People are quietly just using crypto right now. I'm sorry if this conflicts with your worldview but trustless programmable currency divorced from the economic levers and dials of world governments is a useful thing.

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#54

Post by nurettin » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

andy99 wrote: post #23

nurettin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secular cult = an oxymoron?

Why would it be an oxymoron? It's not secular in this case anyway as it's based on a supernatural interpretation of linear algebra.

Well, I would say that indoctrination would require some amount of metaphysics, so not really a secular concept.

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#55

Post by youngNed » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:25 PM UTC

kobalsky wrote: post #31

ta134563564 wrote: post #8

[flagged]

> its nft's all over again. could you explain how you make the connection? do you think AI is worthless?

This isn't the first person i've heard say something along these lines. usually something decrying the hype in AI. My own feeling is that its mental models: 'we have seen hype before, it was nothing, this is hype, so it must be nothing"

But, to me it reminds me of when the internet took off in the mid to late 90s - people (usually older than me) would decry it as 'the latest fad' and play down the affect that this would have on our everyday life. Before hilariously comparing the internet to 'space invaders' or a 'yo-yo' or something weird that at least gave insight into the fact that they really didn't know what it was they were talking about.

People comparing AI/AGI to NFT's or crypto, are IMHO, as weirdly off-base as those who compared 'the internet' to yo-yo's were back in the day.

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#56

Post by Eumenes » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

Does anyone literally not care about this at all? I think 50% of my meeting time this week was dedicated to hearing people gush about this. The "OMG THIS WOULD MAKE A GREAT NETFLIX SPECIAL", the hero worship of Altman, the rumors of a "singularity" like AI break-through, the genius of Satya/MSFT, the unity of the brave OpenAI employees ... I am so happy that my Thanksgiving guests barely know what a computer is.

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#57

Post by xgkickt » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

ironyman wrote: post #3

Why do I get a feeling we are going to see an explosion of secular cults that have weird beliefs in AI and worship AGI?

All of them conveniently with 501(c) status.

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#58

Post by idiotsecant » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:30 PM UTC

ironyman wrote: post #3

Why do I get a feeling we are going to see an explosion of secular cults that have weird beliefs in AI and worship AGI?

Sign me up. Its undeniable that we exist at or very near the point in time marking a phase change I'm the nature of complex thought in pur little corner of the universe. There have been many such phase changes - when we managed to capture mitochondria, when we formed complex multicellular life, when we began to construct tiered food chains, etc et. All the way up until we construct a machine capable of outthinking us. Biological humanity is a booster rocket on a spaceship ride that is the universe coming to understand itself. I feel privileged to exist at this exact moment when I get to witness the start of the next thing, but booster rockets separate and so must we.

I don't think there's anything particularly mystical about that, but I suppose you could say that its spirituality-adjacent in the way that all great things are.

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#59

Post by krapp » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:32 PM UTC

Hoasi wrote: post #40

ironyman wrote: post #3

Why do I get a feeling we are going to see an explosion of secular cults that have weird beliefs in AI and worship AGI?

> Why do I get a feeling we are going to see an explosion of secular cults that have weird beliefs in AI and worship AGI? A tendency that would take humanity a few hundred years backward, that's such a shame. Laziness will prevail when immediacy and cargo cult tribalism are the most potent currency.

>A tendency that would take humanity a few hundred years backward, that's such a shame.

Not in this case - AI, singularitanism and transhumanism have had cultish, neo-religious elements to them for decades. All we're seeing now is the seeds that Ray Kurzewil, Rudy Rucker and others planted ages ago bearing fruit now that technology actually seems to be catching up to people's fears.

I'm not claiming it is, just that it seems to be.

Re: The Fallout from the Weirdness at OpenAI

#60

Post by pembrook » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 2:33 PM UTC

solardev wrote: post #13

The article makes the point that the corporate structure wasn't enough to rein in the human ambitions at OpenAI. But then it concludes that we need more... government regulation. When has that ever stopped the march of technology?

Government regulation stifles the march forward of technology all the time.

Nuclear energy, stem cell and DNA-based research, consumer supersonic flight, NIMBYism and zoning regulation, patent regulation-enabled trolling, copyright abuse, the tragic story of Google Books, fracking, the lack of technology innovation in post-WWII Europe, any historical or current example of communism, etc. I could go on.

Innovation only happens in risk-tolerant and fair markets. A good rule of thumb: Regulation encourages innovation when it supports risk-taking and supports fairness. It stifles innovation when trying to reduce risks or reduce fairness by preferencing incumbent winners.