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Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

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Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#971

Post by busterarm »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #967
busterarm wrote: post #964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Read some Ted Kaczynski Your moral argument is to read the craziest writings of a serial killer?

Your argument is to not read the ideas of someone because he did something bad? What’s the reason? Are you that gullible that you can’t evaluate them with your own mind and conscience and will start shooting everyone the moment you finish his manifesto?

Ted Kacynski's writings were his worldview and what led him to send out a dozen bombs, including one which exploded on an American Airlines flight and luckily did not bring the plane down. His manifesto is his justification for said actions and to advocate becoming a student of it similarly justifies said violence.

It's the same self-own as the massive dummies in the last week who were all talking about Osama bin Laden's Letter to America being right when it was his justification for killing thousands of people on 9/11 and effectively kicking off multiple wars and further deathtoll.

It is a disgusting suggestion and I believe that you should seek professional help.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#972

Post by evantbyrne »

lolinder wrote: post #920
evantbyrne wrote: post #917

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're supposed to do an actual investigation, not just ask one party's opinion and call it a day. C'mon we're talking about his sister making this accusation not some rando gold digger I don't need to justify that some due diligence is in order. Innocent until proven guilty only works when allegations are investigated–otherwise everyone is always "innocent" because you have just chosen not to look.

Now you're moving the goalposts. Until now you've been demanding that "leaders address salacious allegations brought against them by their own family" and that they "at least produce a public statement". What you're now demanding is the purview of the law, not the board. If her allegations are true, he should face the consequences, but they should come first through the system that is specifically designed for testin…

Your inability to understand the difference between a criminal trial and the other leadership practicing due diligence regarding claims of misconduct does not mean I'm "moving the goalposts". What I've suggested from the start is normal practice for any employee at a company accused of sexual misconduct–at least at companies that take ethical violations seriously. You think Apple wouldn't investigate something like this? Forget about it. Ostensibly, based on their complete lack of acknowledgement of such serious allegations that on their surface don't have reason to immediately reject as lacking credibility, this is not one of those organizations. Take it easy.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#973

Post by lovecg »

dontlaugh wrote: post #968
lovecg wrote: post #958

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet workers in those societies tend to end up poorer in the absolute sense. Funny how that works.

If you pay attention to history, they started out far poorer and improved quicker than in comparable countries. Just because revolutions are more likely to happen in poor countries doesn't mean the revolutions caused the poverty.

That’s fair but I’d like to believe (and I know I’m speaking from emotion here and not any rationality) that the jury is still out on this one, and that improvement is not sustainable over the next few decades (in other words, this was a bubble). The alternative is just too hard to accept - it means we should just elect a dictator for life who knows best how to run a centrally planned economy for a low low price of not making fun of them too much and not asking inconvenient questions.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#974

Post by dontlaugh »

lovecg wrote: post #973
dontlaugh wrote: post #968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you pay attention to history, they started out far poorer and improved quicker than in comparable countries. Just because revolutions are more likely to happen in poor countries doesn't mean the revolutions caused the poverty.

That’s fair but I’d like to believe (and I know I’m speaking from emotion here and not any rationality) that the jury is still out on this one, and that improvement is not sustainable over the next few decades (in other words, this was a bubble). The alternative is just too hard to accept - it means we should just elect a dictator for life who knows best how to run a centrally planned economy for a low low price of n…

If you study further you will find out that socialist countries are and have been far more democratic than capitalist ones.

Of course, the ruling class of capitalist countries are incentivised to use their considerable power to lie about any socialist project and portray it as evil.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#975

Post by lovecg »

dontlaugh wrote: post #974
lovecg wrote: post #973

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s fair but I’d like to believe (and I know I’m speaking from emotion here and not any rationality) that the jury is still out on this one, and that improvement is not sustainable over the next few decades (in other words, this was a bubble). The alternative is just too hard to accept - it means we should just elect a dictator for life who knows best how to run a centrally planned economy for a low low price of n…

If you study further you will find out that socialist countries are and have been far more democratic than capitalist ones. Of course, the ruling class of capitalist countries are incentivised to use their considerable power to lie about any socialist project and portray it as evil.

I grew up in a socialist country and saw how democratic it was first hand. No thanks.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#976

Post by Xelynega »

singularity2001 wrote: post #924
Xelynega wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people really not understand how non-profit boards work? The employees don't have a right to sue any of the board members over loss of profit, since the board is not concerned with profit. Adam would have a conflict of interest if his ownership of poe lead him to make decisions that went against the OpenAI mission, and since being a competitor doesn't I don't see how anybody could find him at fault.

people understand that under normal circumstances they are untouchable however if they destroy the livelihood of all employees and have severe conflict of interest maybe some other laws apply. Which laws, that is the question

There's no law that saves your stock options from your lack of understandings of non profits.

If you thought stock options tied to a non profit were going to always increase, I have a bridge to sell you.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#977

Post by Forgeties79 »

tatrajim wrote: post #965
Forgeties79 wrote: post #963

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole reductionist construct of "whiteness", beloved by so many contemporary scholars has little currency in the minds and hearts of many Americans educated before the wave of critical race theory Whiteness and “white passing” is a bar that is literally centuries old. CRT is not the culprit for its current scrutiny or existence - it has been and continues to be a litmus test for who qualifies as the “in” and “o…

I would suggest the scope and psychological relevance of the now fetishized term of "whiteness" in large parts of America was vanishingly small in the past. It had no significance in the slightest in my community or to my identity. It was all about religion, education, and European place of origin. Moreover, and more interestingly, after I studied the Hausa language at university, and decided to travel on my own to l…

Ask Polish or Italian Americans if “whiteness” is a modern obsession and about skin color. Hell go watch Gangs of New York, which came out in 2002, and see if the Irish were considered white.

This is a tale as old as time. In group, out group. Whiteness isn’t just about your skin color.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#978

Post by komali2 »

busterarm wrote: post #956
PawgerZ wrote: post #954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"defense" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

You're proving my point. If we stopped working on our defense, somebody else would be doing this to us. If your starting point of logic though is "America Bad" then your moralizing isn't about working at Google or not.

But very few other countries are doing it to the countries to whom the USA is doing it, thus I disagree with your contention. It seems to me that if the countries that are doing these awful things stop doing these awful things, the awful things will in fact stop happening, at least for a time.

As for to whom the awful things are happening, that's practically moot: humans are humans. I don't really understand why I should accept bad things happening to humans just because I was born on one side of an invisible line and they were born on another. Seems extremely fallacious and irrational, if not sociopathic.

> If your starting point of logic though is "America Bad" then your moralizing isn't about working at Google or not.

The discussion is about the evils perpetrated by the American military industrial complex, and why people may not want to work for companies that participate in this complex. Google being one of these companies. I similarly won't work for Ratheon or Halliburton, for obvious examples. So yes, it's not about working at just Google.

Though for what it's worth, I actually agree with you that the more ethical course of action would be to stay at Google, try to get into a military-adjacent project, and then sabotage it, probably via quiet quitting or holding lots of unnecessary meetings and wasting other people's time. This is directly out of the CIA's playbook, in fact. PDF: https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/...

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#979

Post by komali2 »

busterarm wrote: post #971
Aerbil313 wrote: post #967

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is to not read the ideas of someone because he did something bad? What’s the reason? Are you that gullible that you can’t evaluate them with your own mind and conscience and will start shooting everyone the moment you finish his manifesto?

Ted Kacynski's writings were his worldview and what led him to send out a dozen bombs, including one which exploded on an American Airlines flight and luckily did not bring the plane down. His manifesto is his justification for said actions and to advocate becoming a student of it similarly justifies said violence. It's the same self-own as the massive dummies in the last week who were all talking about Osama bin Lad…

Philosophers in general don't have a hard time separating the terrorism of Ted Kaczynski from his philosophy.

> James Q. Wilson, in a 1998 New York Times op-ed, wrote: "If it is the work of a madman, then the writings of many political philosophers—Jean Jacques Rousseau, Thomas Paine, Karl Marx—are scarcely more sane." He added: "The Unabomber does not like socialization, technology, leftist political causes or conservative attitudes. Apart from his call for an (unspecified) revolution, his paper resembles something that a very good graduate student might have written."

Suggesting someone seek professional help because they read a widely-discussed manifesto is insulting. In your bio you say most people are morons, it makes me think of the saying, "if everyone you meet is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole."

After all, to you, somehow Osama bin Laden, who was trained by US Special Forces, worked with the Mujahideen which received upwards of 6 billion in aid from the USA, Saudi Arabia, and China, is responsible for the two decade long "War on Terror" launched seemingly at random by the Americans into countries now determined to be unrelated to the 9/11 attacks. 9/11 was a tragedy for certain, but to use it to justify the deaths of millions of completely unrelated innocents... well it certainly clarifies why our other thread has gone in the direction of you trying to justify imperialism to serve the purpose of nationalism.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#980

Post by dontlaugh »

lovecg wrote: post #975
dontlaugh wrote: post #974

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you study further you will find out that socialist countries are and have been far more democratic than capitalist ones. Of course, the ruling class of capitalist countries are incentivised to use their considerable power to lie about any socialist project and portray it as evil.

I grew up in a socialist country and saw how democratic it was first hand. No thanks.

I grew up in a post-socialist country. Most older people had some criticism, but overall missed socialism.

I always found it amazing to hear about workplace councils that could fire the boss or the very low rents.

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