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Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

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Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#921

Post by Dalewyn »

evantbyrne wrote: post #917
lolinder wrote: post #915

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say the employees do the thing you consider to be ethical and demand an accounting, and Altman gets up and says "it's false, it never happened." What then? Has anything really changed? I would expect him to say the same thing regardless of its truth, so it seems to me we have no additional information: she still says it happened, the rest of the family says she's delusional, and he (obviously) says he's innocen…

You're supposed to do an actual investigation, not just ask one party's opinion and call it a day. C'mon we're talking about his sister making this accusation not some rando gold digger I don't need to justify that some due diligence is in order. Innocent until proven guilty only works when allegations are investigated–otherwise everyone is always "innocent" because you have just chosen not to look.

>You're supposed to do an actual investigation,

Holding trial in a court of law is that "investigation".

>not just ask one party's opinion and call it a day.

Except that's what you've been saying OpenAI employees should do.

>C'mon we're talking about his sister making this accusation not some rando gold digger I don't need to justify that some due diligence is in order.

Presuming guilt until proven innocent is the literal opposite of due dilligence.

It doesn't matter if the accuser is a sibling, a spouse, a (ex-)lover, a friend, a stranger, or a little green man from Mars. Due dilligence is considering the allegations put forth before the court and the evidence provided to either prove or disprove those allegations, with the burden of evidence primarily lying with the accuser.

>Innocent until proven guilty only works when allegations are investigated–otherwise everyone is always "innocent" because you have just chosen not to look.

You are correct that everyone is presumed innocent of any allegations until the case is brought to a trial and judgment is passed in a court of law with no chance for further appeals. If an accuser never files a lawsuit to bring their allegation to trial, the only way we can consider the accused is that he is innocent of any allegations.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#922

Post by [deleted] »

NotMichaelBay wrote: post #904
r3trohack3r wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how people reach this sentiment. Humans strike me as being awesome, especially compared to other species. I feel like there is a general sentiment that nature has it figured out and that humans are disrupting nature. But I haven't been convinced that is true. Nature seems to be one big gladiatorial ring where everything is in a death match. Nature finds equilibrium through death, often massive amounts of…

I don't see how you can look at global warming, ocean acidification, falling biodiversity and other global trends and how little action is being done to slow these ill effects and not arrive at that sentiment. Yes, the world has scientists saying "hey, this is happening, maybe we should do something" but the lack of money into solutions shows the interest just isn't there. Being the smartest species on the planet isn…

[deleted]

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#923

Post by [deleted] »

tester457 wrote: post #856
r3trohack3r wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how people reach this sentiment. Humans strike me as being awesome, especially compared to other species. I feel like there is a general sentiment that nature has it figured out and that humans are disrupting nature. But I haven't been convinced that is true. Nature seems to be one big gladiatorial ring where everything is in a death match. Nature finds equilibrium through death, often massive amounts of…

> Or if the superintelligence is starting to disrupt our economies or computer systems, why wouldn't we be able to detect that early and purge it? If it is a superintelligence then there's a chance for a hard AI takeoff and we don't have a day to notice and purge it. We have no idea if a hard or soft takeoff will occur.

[deleted]

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#924

Post by singularity2001 »

Xelynega wrote: post #814
singularity2001 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at what point do all the employees have a right to sue Adam D'Angelo (the owner of Poe, some wannabe GPT competitor) if he doesn't resign? if he really plays hardball and burns openAI to the ground as he promised, would we as customers have leverage against them? Forget about poe, Isn't ChatGPT a potential killer of Quora and stackoverflow and Google ? How On earth did a representative of one of these three make it t…

Do people really not understand how non-profit boards work? The employees don't have a right to sue any of the board members over loss of profit, since the board is not concerned with profit. Adam would have a conflict of interest if his ownership of poe lead him to make decisions that went against the OpenAI mission, and since being a competitor doesn't I don't see how anybody could find him at fault.

people understand that under normal circumstances they are untouchable however if they destroy the livelihood of all employees and have severe conflict of interest maybe some other laws apply. Which laws, that is the question

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#925

Post by zone411 »

alephnerd wrote: post #84

As I posted elsewhere, I think this is a conflict between Dustin Moskovitz and Sam Altman. Ilya may have been brought into this without his knowledge (which might explain why he retracted his position). Dustin Moskovitz was an early employee at FB, and the founder of Asana. He also created (along with plenty of MSFT bigwigs) a non-profit called Open Philanthropy, which was a early proponent of a form of Effective Alt…

He said this is false.

https://www.threads.net/@moskov/post/Cz482XgJBN0?hl=en

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#926

Post by nullptr_deref »

tsunamifury wrote: post #591
nullptr_deref wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i was really naive believing there was any another option. if it is about capital and if it is the game, then i am ready to play now. can't wait to steal so many open source project out there and market it. obviously it will be hard but hey, it is legal and doable. just stating this fact because i never had the confident to pull it off. but after recent events, it started making sense. so whatever people do is now mi…

This in the theory of the lizard. Bugs do all the hard work of collecting food and water and flying around and lizards just sit and eat the ones that fly by.

Well said! There is no wrong being in lizard then, isn't there?

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#927

Post by tsunamifury »

nullptr_deref wrote: post #926
tsunamifury wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This in the theory of the lizard. Bugs do all the hard work of collecting food and water and flying around and lizards just sit and eat the ones that fly by.

Well said! There is no wrong being in lizard then, isn't there?

Well except tragedy of the commons right? If it’s all lizards and no flies everyone dies. This is why the human versions project to the workers that they are all in it together and blah blah blah.

I don’t know what to do with this.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#928

Post by las_balas_tres »

RayVR wrote: post #861
imiric wrote: post #665

If anything has become clear after all this is that humanity is not ready for being the guardian of superintelligence. These are supposed to be the top masterminds behind one of the most influential technologies of our lifetime, and perhaps history, and yet they're all behaving like petty children, with egos and personal interests pulling in all directions, and everyone doing their best to secure their piece of the p…

I’ll believe this when I see an AI model become as good as someone with just ten years experience in any field. As a programmer I’m using chatgpt as often as I can but it still completely fails to be of any use and often proves to be a waste of time 80% of the time. Right now, there are too many people that think because these models crossed one hurdle, all the rest will easily be crossed in the coming years. My beli…

100% agree. I have a coding job and although co-pilot comes in handy for auto completing function calls and generating code that would be an obvious progression of what needs to be written, I would never let it generate swaths of code based on some specification or even let it implement a moderately complex method or function because, as I have experienced, what it spits out is absolute garbage.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#929

Post by fuzzfactor »

jacquesm wrote: post #611
ben_w wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel pranked despite having multiple independent websites confirming the story without a single one giving me an SSL certificate warning.

Can't blame you. And I suspect the story is far from over, and that it may well get a lot weirder still.

Seems to me that sama and Microsoft have been on fairly equal footing since the 49:51 % deal was made.

Then a seismic shift underneath Sam but Microsoft has enough stability and resources to more than compensate for the part of the 51% that was already in OpenAI's hands, which might not be under Sam's purview any more if he is kicked out.

But then again it might be Sam's leadership which would still effectively be in place from a position at Microsoft anyway, or it might end up making more sense for him to also be in a position at OpenAI, maybe even at the same time, in order to make the most of their previous investment.

Kicking out Sam was obviously an emotional decision, not anything like a business decision. Then again OpenAI is not supposed to be an actual business. I don't think that should be an excuse for an unwise or destructive decision. It was not an overnight development, even though it took Sam by surprise. When I see this:

>the board no longer has confidence in his ability to continue leading OpenAI

I understand that to mean that the board was not behind him 100% for quite some time, but were fine with him going forward believing otherwise. Some uncandidness does seem to have taken place and there may or may not have been anything Sam could have done about it.

This was simmering for a while and it will require more than one weekend for everyone involved to regroup.

Which is what they're doing now, observers can see a whirlwind, actual participants really have something on their plate.

Some things will have to be unraveled and other things weaved from the key ingredients, I would say it's really up to Sam and Microsoft to hash this out so it's still some kind of something like an equal deal among them. Regardless of which employer(s) Sam may end up serving in leadership positions, and the bulk of the staff will be behind Sam in a way the OpenAI board was not, so the employees will be just as well off regardless of the final structure.

This was quite a hasty upset but deserves a careful somewhat gradual resolution.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#930

Post by iampims »

grogenaut wrote: post #873
nilkn wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters is how much personal work and money Adam put into Poe. It seems like he's been working on it full-time all year and has more or less pivoted to it away from Quora, which also faces an existential threat from OpenAI (and AI in general). Either way, Adam's conflict of interest is significant, and it's staggering he wasn't asked to resign from the board after launching a chatbot-based AI company.

Does openai exist without stack overflow or quora?

Quora’s data is next to useless.
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