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In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

quantamagazine.org

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Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#211

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

porkbeer wrote: post #121
fphhotchips wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just isn't the case for me. I don't wake up when I skip breakfast, and if I don't eat throughout the day, I invariably end up exhausted by 3pm only to wake right up 45 minutes after dinner. I don't doubt your experience, but I certainly don't share it.

Try fasting for a day or 2, after reading up on it. It will reset the 'need to eat' training. Humans eating more than once or t2ice a day os a rather recent phenomenon.

Caveat; fasting functions differently for women and men. Women may actually damage their hormones if they aren’t careful fasting in a way that doesn’t happen with men.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#212

Post by mewpmewp2 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #203
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I think for such an entity we may be closer to emerging than we like Why are people talking about it as if it was a bad thing? If I listen to people everyone seems to be dissatisfied with their life as of now, due to work, politics, society and everything else. If AGI was to arrive it would potentially remove those frustrations, right.

We humans are often pretty bad, as agent Smith put 'we are a disease, a virus' if you have purely rational view without any emotions (including being human too and making it personal for example). If you look at the news, horrible trumps positive big time, any day. It may not reflect actual truth on the ground, but AGI scanning internet knows nothing about reality on the street and everything about trending topics an…

I would imagine AGI would be statistically intelligent though, to be aware that whatever news has is the most negative outliers.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#213

Post by mewpmewp2 »

BadCookie wrote: post #199
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by matter? As species most of us developed bias to not killing because we have better odds of surviving if we work together.

I assume that it would “matter” to you if somebody shot up a class of kindergarteners at your local elementary school. That’s what I mean by “matter.” Maybe you are right and we’re all just selfish and driven by our own desire to survive, but why does it matter to you if you survive if you are just an input/output mechanism? My computer doesn’t care if it gets crushed to bits (I assume).

Yes, it matters because it's evolutionary bias to protect the young, because historically the trait of protecting youth was more likely to keep those genes spreading.

It matters to me because I have inherent bias to want to survive because that's what was successful through evolution. I'm aware that I have it, but it still exists.

Why does GPT keep generating tokens after a token, should it matter to it whether it would keep responding?

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#214

Post by InSteady »

Balgair wrote: post #181
belugacat wrote: post #136

This is why the reductionist argument of "your brain is reducible to a computer with inputs/outputs like any other, all we have to do is reimplement it" of AGI proponents always fell flat to me. It's now becoming clear that we can't just take the brain in isolation, treating the spinal nerve like a PCI-E lane - the gut has to come with it. And if the gut comes with it, all the other organs (skin top of the list) prob…

Neuroscientist here: There is no such thing as a mind-body duality. Your body is your mind and your mind is your body. Full stop. We are still in the very infancy of the study of the mind body and brain. We're finally uncovering some of the most basic tools that will serve us for millennia to come. Imagine trying to understand a 2022 Ford F-150 with only a 7/16ths wrench and a flat-head screwdriver: You can get prett…

Adding to this, I just want to quote a post made in a different thread [1] about bacterial memory:

"Not only simpler lifeforms. Cases with humans that may indicate a memory transfer after organ transplants are also documented:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31739081/

>The acquisition of donor personality characteristics by recipients following heart transplantation is hypothesized to occur via the transfer of cellular memory

https://www.namahjournal.com/doc/Actual/Memory-transference-...

>There have been perplexing reports of organ transplant receivers claiming that they seem to have inherited the memory, experiences and emotions of their deceased donors, and which are causing quirky changes in their personality."

This post was in response to one describing decapitated worms growing new heads with their old memories intact, as well as old studies where planarians were trained to navigate a simple maze, then fed to other planarians who were then also able to navigate the maze. Fascinating stuff!

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38372687

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#215

Post by Jenda_ »

plufz wrote: post #151
armada651 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"your brain is reducible to a computer with inputs/outputs like any other, all we have to do is reimplement it" It still is though, you will reach human intelligence by just modeling the brain. The problem is that you probably won't reach an emotionally stable human since you'll be missing all the emotional/hormonal signaling that comes from the rest of the body, but we can emulate that without having to model the fu…

> you will reach human intelligence by just modeling the brain I'm not so sure. I mean obviously this is very complicated and we still know very little of the brain. Just one example (from what I understand) you can't really separate intelligence from emotions. There are researchers in emotions that explain our whole system of affect/feeling/emotion/mood/etc. as a very effective abstraction of all the inputs from our…

> I'm not so sure. I mean obviously this is very complicated and we still know very little of the brain.

At least, there are people who have lost most of their gut due to disease or trauma, and their human intelligence is still working unharmed. You may say it is needed for development of the brain, but it does not seem to be needed for function once at least partially developed.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#217

Post by zubairq »

Balgair wrote: post #181
belugacat wrote: post #136

This is why the reductionist argument of "your brain is reducible to a computer with inputs/outputs like any other, all we have to do is reimplement it" of AGI proponents always fell flat to me. It's now becoming clear that we can't just take the brain in isolation, treating the spinal nerve like a PCI-E lane - the gut has to come with it. And if the gut comes with it, all the other organs (skin top of the list) prob…

Neuroscientist here: There is no such thing as a mind-body duality. Your body is your mind and your mind is your body. Full stop. We are still in the very infancy of the study of the mind body and brain. We're finally uncovering some of the most basic tools that will serve us for millennia to come. Imagine trying to understand a 2022 Ford F-150 with only a 7/16ths wrench and a flat-head screwdriver: You can get prett…

Very interesting, so exercising the body IS exercising the mind!

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#218

Post by geraldhh »

Balgair wrote: post #181
belugacat wrote: post #136

This is why the reductionist argument of "your brain is reducible to a computer with inputs/outputs like any other, all we have to do is reimplement it" of AGI proponents always fell flat to me. It's now becoming clear that we can't just take the brain in isolation, treating the spinal nerve like a PCI-E lane - the gut has to come with it. And if the gut comes with it, all the other organs (skin top of the list) prob…

Neuroscientist here: There is no such thing as a mind-body duality. Your body is your mind and your mind is your body. Full stop. We are still in the very infancy of the study of the mind body and brain. We're finally uncovering some of the most basic tools that will serve us for millennia to come. Imagine trying to understand a 2022 Ford F-150 with only a 7/16ths wrench and a flat-head screwdriver: You can get prett…

> a 7/16ths wrench

made me chuckle

get metric guys!

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#219

Post by amanaplanacanal »

agumonkey wrote: post #189
dontlaugh wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just pointing out that your theory is trivially disproven. An excess of comfort is probably still bad, but I doubt it's the main cause of obesity.

It all hinges on how we define comfort. A comfy villager 500 years ago, with fruits and meat nearby was probably never really hungry, but, I'd argue: - never the amount of processed calories at hand - had to consume these calories on a regular basis.. no vehicles, no powered tools except the occasional mill, most things required walking of lifting

Obesity in the US didn’t really start taking off until the 1970s. There are plenty of people still alive from the before times. I believe that studies have been done, and people aren’t generally less active now than they were then.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#220

Post by amanaplanacanal »

prepend wrote: post #15
atombender wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not gluten obviously that’s a crock of shit Celiac disease [1] is a real and potential serious autoimmune disorder. Whether non-celiac gluten intolerance is a real thing is another question, though there's some evidence for it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeliac_disease

Celiac is real, but very rare. I think GP was referring to gluten intolerance where there’s not much evidence to support it.

I suspect there may be something else going on, at least for some people. My girlfriend has digestive issues when she eats wheat, but rye and barley don’t seem to bother her. So I assume it’s not gluten specifically, but eating gluten free resolves the problem.
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