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In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

quantamagazine.org

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Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#81

Post by theshrike79 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75
theshrike79 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite, leaving out red meat made my gut feel a lot better. I do still eat the occasional beef burger, but mostly it's either vegan or fish/chicken. This is the thing that's tripping up health professionals about gut health, people's guts are really different and there's no official accepted way of testing what kind of diet works for who. Except for long-term experimentation and elimination and that's not "…

> the thing that's tripping up health professionals about gut health This has been a staple of gut research for >2 decades. It entered the mainstream in the last one.

Research yes, but the actual doctors looking at actual patients not so much sadly.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#82

Post by astrange »

tranzudao wrote: post #61
gumby wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the point of eating collagen when you’re already eating protein powder? Why do you think your gut would process it differently from any other protein?

Collagen is made out of mainly 3 amino acids:(hydroxy)proline, lysine, and glycine. So in theory collagen powder is giving you very high levels of those specific amino acids which would help promote collagen formation. I can’t say I’m familiar with the literature and if there is any data behind that - but thats your reason

I've tried collagen powder before, because it's very easy to take since it easily dissolves in drinks (and I think actually improves them), and I think it made my hair and nails grow faster but didn't do much else.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#83

Post by theshrike79 »

Eupolemos wrote: post #76
theshrike79 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vagus nerve is the weirdest thing. Had to dig into it a bit to figure out my acid reflux. Basically if I eat stuff that doesn't digest well, my stomach bloats and causes a mild hiatal hernia, which in turn presses on the vagus nerve that travels right next to it. This causes the _exact_ same symptoms as a panic attack. Cold hands and feet, the feeling of an increased heart rate etc. Not super fun when you have a…

Hi - this sounds exactly like what my GF is figthing with bloating, really cold hands and feet and anxiety attacks. She used to have a severe reflux issue. Can I ask you, what medicine do you take to relax the esophageal sphincter? When it comes to food, have you found a pattern in what to avoid or do just stick to some basic kinds to avoid?

Metamizole[0] is the one I take, it's _really_ sketchy and actually banned in some. Looks like it's banned for human use in the US :D

But hey, it works and I usually need like 0,5-1 tablets a year so I'm not personally worried about any adverse effects.

As for foods, during the worst reflux times I ate pretty much just unseasoned chicken and rice and drank only water just to let my stomach and esophagus time to heal a bit from the constant acidic assault.

Then it was a matter of slowly adding stuff I ate regularly one at a time and see which cause issues. Weirdly I could eat spicy Indian food and it actually helped my symptoms :D

Because of the elimination diet I dropped red meat from my diet. So no beef or pork, those seem to be the worst ones as far as digestion goes. I have a theory that my stomach acids aren't strong enough to digest red meat and it just sits there slowly dissolving instead of moving on like it should -> acid reflux and bloated stomach -> boom, vagus nerve angry.

Currently I'm feeling a lot better than 10-15 years ago and I can have the odd hot dog, some bacon and pepperoni on my pizza, but I stay away from steaks, briskets and all that - and if I _have_ to eat red meat in quantities, I don't eat much for the rest of the day, just to give it time to digest.

The usual reflux suspects are wheat, sugar, coffee and milk. Those went out too in the beginning, but nowadays I can have them in moderation and the result is just bloating unless I overdo it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamizole

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#84

Post by theshrike79 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #74
theshrike79 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason why salads aren't a thing in warmer countries. The same reason applies to people only drinking tea, not cold water. If it's not cooked, it might be actually dangerous.

> reason why salads aren't a thing in warmer countries Meanwhile cooked chicken can be safely left on a countertop in Canton for hours? This model needs more variables.

Not an expert in China, but AFAIK the Chinese are big on eating food right after it has been cooked for this exact reason.

Salads aren't a thing because they're likely to have bacteria in them and they've been sitting out for god knows how long.

Same goes for proteins, if it's still sizzling hot when it's delivered, it was most likely just cooked and thus safe.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#85

Post by vjk800 »

theshrike79 wrote: post #71
Euphorbium wrote: post #56

I’ve recently moved to a meat heavy diet, and that pretty much fixed my ibs completely. I still get flare ups if I eat too many oranges or bananas, but eating meat on every meal is absolutely essential.

I'm the opposite, leaving out red meat made my gut feel a lot better. I do still eat the occasional beef burger, but mostly it's either vegan or fish/chicken. This is the thing that's tripping up health professionals about gut health, people's guts are really different and there's no official accepted way of testing what kind of diet works for who. Except for long-term experimentation and elimination and that's not "…

> This is the thing that's tripping up health professionals about gut health, people's guts are really different and there's no official accepted way of testing what kind of diet works for who.

The more I've learned about my personal response to various health interventions, the more I've come to believe that a "human being" as a research subject for many medical interventions is very ill-defined simply because there is too much variation between individuals. The research subject should really be a single human individual. Poorly working medical treatments to many weird, complicated, chronic illnesses should really be replaced by an algorithm that allows a person to find the correct treatment or lifestyle adjustments themselves.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#86

Post by jeremycarter »

theshrike79 wrote: post #67
jimmySixDOF wrote: post #50

There was something about the vegus nerve being influenced by gut microbiota so it's also the parasympathetic not just the enteric nervous system but this is all hard to study I subscribed to u-Boime for a couple of years until that imploded spectacularly and the few snapshots I had are not enough of a sample size this whole field is so data poor and uncertain.

The vagus nerve is the weirdest thing. Had to dig into it a bit to figure out my acid reflux. Basically if I eat stuff that doesn't digest well, my stomach bloats and causes a mild hiatal hernia, which in turn presses on the vagus nerve that travels right next to it. This causes the _exact_ same symptoms as a panic attack. Cold hands and feet, the feeling of an increased heart rate etc. Not super fun when you have a…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roemheld_syndrome

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#87

Post by vjk800 »

theshrike79 wrote: post #67
jimmySixDOF wrote: post #50

There was something about the vegus nerve being influenced by gut microbiota so it's also the parasympathetic not just the enteric nervous system but this is all hard to study I subscribed to u-Boime for a couple of years until that imploded spectacularly and the few snapshots I had are not enough of a sample size this whole field is so data poor and uncertain.

The vagus nerve is the weirdest thing. Had to dig into it a bit to figure out my acid reflux. Basically if I eat stuff that doesn't digest well, my stomach bloats and causes a mild hiatal hernia, which in turn presses on the vagus nerve that travels right next to it. This causes the _exact_ same symptoms as a panic attack. Cold hands and feet, the feeling of an increased heart rate etc. Not super fun when you have a…

> Basically if I eat stuff that doesn't digest well, my stomach bloats and causes a mild hiatal hernia, which in turn presses on the vagus nerve that travels right next to it.

What do you base this claim on?

I have been diagnosed with the reflux disease an a medium sized hiatal hernia. I survive with the proton pump inhibitors, but I have to take them constantly. As far as I know, a hiatal hernia can't be healed and it contributes to the acid reflux rather than the acid reflux causing it.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#88

Post by vjk800 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #74
theshrike79 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason why salads aren't a thing in warmer countries. The same reason applies to people only drinking tea, not cold water. If it's not cooked, it might be actually dangerous.

> reason why salads aren't a thing in warmer countries Meanwhile cooked chicken can be safely left on a countertop in Canton for hours? This model needs more variables.

Anything cooked should be safer than anything raw. Cooking sterilizes the food.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#89

Post by XorNot »

whitepoplar wrote: post #34
XorNot wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

L Reuteri supplements made the biggest difference for me after about 3 months.

What were the specific benefits you experienced?

I was able to cease taking a gut motility drug (prucalopride) which I also had to combine with a fiber supplement to get manageable bowel movements (which is to say: no bloating, cramping and other non-specific pain most weeks).

I still have issues from time to time, but I'm now also off the fiber supplements entirely as well (some dietary changes probably helped there as well - I cut out almost all sugar).

To explain the change: I had weeks where I'd have to take 2-3 movicol satchets a day to try and alleviate the pain: after about 3 months.

Re: In the gut's 'second brain,' key agents of health emerge

#90

Post by petesergeant »

Euphorbium wrote: post #56

I’ve recently moved to a meat heavy diet, and that pretty much fixed my ibs completely. I still get flare ups if I eat too many oranges or bananas, but eating meat on every meal is absolutely essential.

Quitting drinking for three years fixed mine, an unexpected side effect. Going keto also taught me that wheat gives me heart burn, which again, wasn’t an expected side effect. I drink and eat small amounts of wheat now without issue.

Having been skeptical, I think I would recommend elimination diets to people just to see if there’s an unexpected benefit to cutting an unexpected item

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