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FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

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Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#31

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #16
underseacables wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not think of something more that America needs. The government accountability office publishers reports all the time about government waste and malfeasance, but it is consistently, dare I say, pointedly, ignored. Having a separate independent agency, cast with investigating and prosecuting crime and criminals within the government itself would be amazing. Same with congress.

This would be good, right up until it itself becomes as corrupted as the entities is prosecutes. The problem is that 'unconstitutional' is in the eye of the beholder. Take for example the classic "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". Does this mean all gun control laws are unconstitutional or does it mean th…

First off, you are too late for any comment about the text to hold any water. 2008 Heller and 2010 McDonald settled that. It is an individuals right to keep and bear, not collective, never was. One term that came from Heller was “dangerous and unusual”, make note of the and.

Next, well regulated never meant lots of regulations. It meant well trained and in good working order. 1800s Oxford dictionary.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#32

Post by datadrivenangel »

progne wrote: post #23
datadrivenangel wrote: post #15

"A warrant requirement would amount to a de facto ban, because query applications either would not meet the legal standard to win court approval" I hope that we get that de facto ban. It would be good for society.

The fourth amendment is a de jure ban, and shouldn't a de jure ban be a de facto ban for law enforcement? The lawful way to make it de facto is to make it de jure first by repealing that pesky amendment.

De jure, de jure is de jure, de facto, de jure is not de facto?

To absolutely mangle paraphrasing yogi berra's quote about the difference between theory and practice.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#33

Post by underseacables »

appleskeptic wrote: post #20
underseacables wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not think of something more that America needs. The government accountability office publishers reports all the time about government waste and malfeasance, but it is consistently, dare I say, pointedly, ignored. Having a separate independent agency, cast with investigating and prosecuting crime and criminals within the government itself would be amazing. Same with congress.

This would be awful. Theft and bribery are already prosecuted aggressively. If anything, too much. It’s gotten to the point that high government officials can’t afford to be lobbied. Here they are, some of the most powerful people in the world, paid barely enough to live an hour drive away from DC, having to spend a fair bit of their personal income to go to lunch and dinner with leaders of private industry. As for c…

Your comment brought to mind the number of IRS employees who are delinquent on their taxes. I think it really comes down to trust. You say that the government is already investigated enough, but I would contend that it's really the government investigating itself. If there is a separate, independent agency that investigates government and employee malfeasance, then at least there can be some check, accountability, and maybe transparency.

I can understand your focus with intelligent agency abusive, but I think the problem is much more systemic, and far greater than simply the intelligence agencies. People who work in the public trust should be held to a higher standard.

"According to the FY 2021 FERDI Annual Report, IRS employees had a 1.35 percent delinquency rate, compared to 4.93 percent for civilian workers throughout the Federal Government."

That number should really be zero.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#34

Post by underseacables »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #16
underseacables wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not think of something more that America needs. The government accountability office publishers reports all the time about government waste and malfeasance, but it is consistently, dare I say, pointedly, ignored. Having a separate independent agency, cast with investigating and prosecuting crime and criminals within the government itself would be amazing. Same with congress.

This would be good, right up until it itself becomes as corrupted as the entities is prosecutes. The problem is that 'unconstitutional' is in the eye of the beholder. Take for example the classic "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". Does this mean all gun control laws are unconstitutional or does it mean th…

Interpretation is an issue, just look at the way President Biden, and President Trump are being treated with regards to retention of classified documents. One is being prosecuted, the other is not. That's a very broad and public example, but the party in power typically does not prosecute its own.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#35

Post by comrh »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #31
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be good, right up until it itself becomes as corrupted as the entities is prosecutes. The problem is that 'unconstitutional' is in the eye of the beholder. Take for example the classic "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". Does this mean all gun control laws are unconstitutional or does it mean th…

First off, you are too late for any comment about the text to hold any water. 2008 Heller and 2010 McDonald settled that. It is an individuals right to keep and bear, not collective, never was. One term that came from Heller was “dangerous and unusual”, make note of the and. Next, well regulated never meant lots of regulations. It meant well trained and in good working order. 1800s Oxford dictionary.

The way the Court current works its just settled until the next turn over in court make up.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#36

Post by mchanson »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #12

I'm sure it would end badly, but sometimes I fantasize about the U.S. citizens having a LEO that actively investigates / prosecutes government officials who violate the constitution.

I would prefer a government that investigates all the bad acts of LEOs.

I would prefer a government that investigates the rich.

I would prefer a government that investigates wage theft.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#37

Post by ikiris »

underseacables wrote: post #34
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be good, right up until it itself becomes as corrupted as the entities is prosecutes. The problem is that 'unconstitutional' is in the eye of the beholder. Take for example the classic "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". Does this mean all gun control laws are unconstitutional or does it mean th…

Interpretation is an issue, just look at the way President Biden, and President Trump are being treated with regards to retention of classified documents. One is being prosecuted, the other is not. That's a very broad and public example, but the party in power typically does not prosecute its own.

Do you think this is a good faith argument? What might be differences in these situations that aren't based on simple "other party bad"?

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#38

Post by bdzr »

underseacables wrote: post #34
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be good, right up until it itself becomes as corrupted as the entities is prosecutes. The problem is that 'unconstitutional' is in the eye of the beholder. Take for example the classic "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". Does this mean all gun control laws are unconstitutional or does it mean th…

Interpretation is an issue, just look at the way President Biden, and President Trump are being treated with regards to retention of classified documents. One is being prosecuted, the other is not. That's a very broad and public example, but the party in power typically does not prosecute its own.

One turned over the classified documents.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#40

Post by matheusmoreira »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #12

I'm sure it would end badly, but sometimes I fantasize about the U.S. citizens having a LEO that actively investigates / prosecutes government officials who violate the constitution.

It will be fine so long as there's no corruption. But if there's even a hint that one group is getting persecuted...
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