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FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

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Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#11

Post by blooalien »

phpisthebest wrote: post #7
soulofmischief wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be able to do just about anything they claim is legal without needing probable cause or a warrant. I don't know what America Chris Wray is from, but in my America, law officers should not get any special treatment when it comes to this. The same arguments that would constitute your actions as stalking should apply to the FBI, if they are engaging in the same set of behaviors while operating outside of any…

The single greatest problem we have in government today is the fact that over the years we have added more and more exclusions, exemptions, and privileges for "law enforcement" Rules for thee but not for me is the height of government tyranny, and today that is at all levels of governance from something as simple as parking enforcement all the up to lethal force No government agent should be exempt from the law, no g…

> "The single greatest problem we have in government today is" ...

Well, *one* of the greatest problems, anyway... Another similar related one is most of our politicians bein' pretty much fully "bought and paid for" by corporate interests, and money / power bein' far more important to them than human lives.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#13

Post by Teever »

xt00 wrote: post #4

The acid test for this is, if its OK for the FBI to spy on you as a citizen, then cool, we need the right to spy on the FBI agent and his family members -- why does he get to spy on me and my family members when there is zero reason for them to do that? I don't have anything to hide, and neither should he, so its all kosher right?

I agree with this one hundred percent. I wish there was some sort of organization that coordinated OSINT efforts on law enforcement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#14

Post by underseacables »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #12

I'm sure it would end badly, but sometimes I fantasize about the U.S. citizens having a LEO that actively investigates / prosecutes government officials who violate the constitution.

I could not think of something more that America needs. The government accountability office publishers reports all the time about government waste and malfeasance, but it is consistently, dare I say, pointedly, ignored. Having a separate independent agency, cast with investigating and prosecuting crime and criminals within the government itself would be amazing.

Same with congress.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#16

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

underseacables wrote: post #14
CoastalCoder wrote: post #12

I'm sure it would end badly, but sometimes I fantasize about the U.S. citizens having a LEO that actively investigates / prosecutes government officials who violate the constitution.

I could not think of something more that America needs. The government accountability office publishers reports all the time about government waste and malfeasance, but it is consistently, dare I say, pointedly, ignored. Having a separate independent agency, cast with investigating and prosecuting crime and criminals within the government itself would be amazing. Same with congress.

This would be good, right up until it itself becomes as corrupted as the entities is prosecutes. The problem is that 'unconstitutional' is in the eye of the beholder. Take for example the classic "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". Does this mean all gun control laws are unconstitutional or does it mean that gun control laws are implicit in what it means to be a 'A well regulated Militia'; the army for example has a ton of rules about guns. Good arguments can be made for either of these views (and others). Interpretation is everything.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#17

Post by yieldcrv »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #12

I'm sure it would end badly, but sometimes I fantasize about the U.S. citizens having a LEO that actively investigates / prosecutes government officials who violate the constitution.

Developed nations laugh at our checks and balances, because we believe in them

bUt aT LeAst wE cAN tALK aBoUt It

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#18

Post by Clubber »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #16
underseacables wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not think of something more that America needs. The government accountability office publishers reports all the time about government waste and malfeasance, but it is consistently, dare I say, pointedly, ignored. Having a separate independent agency, cast with investigating and prosecuting crime and criminals within the government itself would be amazing. Same with congress.

This would be good, right up until it itself becomes as corrupted as the entities is prosecutes. The problem is that 'unconstitutional' is in the eye of the beholder. Take for example the classic "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". Does this mean all gun control laws are unconstitutional or does it mean th…

>or does it mean that gun control laws are implicit in what it means to be a 'A well regulated Militia'

People who use this argument are disingenuous because they wouldn't argue the same thing about press being limited to printing presses or speech being limited to the spoken word.

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#19

Post by photochemsyn »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #12

I'm sure it would end badly, but sometimes I fantasize about the U.S. citizens having a LEO that actively investigates / prosecutes government officials who violate the constitution.

It's certainly possible, but the U.S. Supreme Court has been working against the exposure of such crimes by government officials:

https://whyy.org/articles/temple-professor-suing-fbi-for-wro...

> "Xi’s team has a very high legal hurdle to clear because recent Supreme Court decisions make it very difficult to sue federal officials for damages for violating constitutional rights."

Re: FBI director admits they rarely have probable cause for using NSA collections

#20

Post by appleskeptic »

underseacables wrote: post #14
CoastalCoder wrote: post #12

I'm sure it would end badly, but sometimes I fantasize about the U.S. citizens having a LEO that actively investigates / prosecutes government officials who violate the constitution.

I could not think of something more that America needs. The government accountability office publishers reports all the time about government waste and malfeasance, but it is consistently, dare I say, pointedly, ignored. Having a separate independent agency, cast with investigating and prosecuting crime and criminals within the government itself would be amazing. Same with congress.

This would be awful. Theft and bribery are already prosecuted aggressively. If anything, too much. It’s gotten to the point that high government officials can’t afford to be lobbied. Here they are, some of the most powerful people in the world, paid barely enough to live an hour drive away from DC, having to spend a fair bit of their personal income to go to lunch and dinner with leaders of private industry.

As for criminalizing “waste”, you start to get dangerously close to criminalizing politics itself. Then it just becomes about controlling DOJ and using it to go after your enemies (this is already too true).

The better thing to do would with regards to intelligence agency abuses would be to have more review of the decisions, mandatory discipline of rulebreakers, and prosecution of specific crimes committed for egregious cases. No need to generally criminalize every time a government official makes a bad judgment call.

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