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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#481

Post by kalleboo »

meepmorp wrote: post #406
jstanley wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who still have a use for type A Isn't this basically everyone? I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen something that plugs into type C and it's not either a phone charger or a type A adapter.

> I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen something that plugs into type C and it's not either a phone charger or a type A adapter. By way of comparison, my experience is basically the opposite. Most of USB devices I have attached to my computers are USB-C - my keyboard, local backup disks and non-perf critical mass storage, my yubikeys, one of my monitors, network dongles. Most of the USB-A things I ha…

> I had a bunch of perfectly serviceable USB-A to lightning cables to discard

Can't you just give them to the person who is inheriting/buying your previous phone?

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#482

Post by kalleboo »

bxparks wrote: post #437
pseudostem wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When buying an expensive (relatively) computer was a big deal in my house, I had a hard time convincing my dad about the iBook G3 which didn't come with a floppy drive. Apple has been at it since the dawn of time.

I think Apple made a terrible mistake. But I am not worth $3 trillion, so who am I to argue? But I will piss into the wind anyway: The biggest difference between USB-A and floppy/CD/DVD drive is the network effect. USB-A is an interface between 2 devices, so its usefulness is measured as an O(N^2). It allows all my laptops to connect to any of my peripherals. To replace USB-A, I would need to replace all my laptops a…

> To replace USB-A, I would need to replace all my peripherals.

You can get those USB A-C plug adapters for $1-2 a pop. Stick one on the end of each peripheral cable, now they are all USB-C.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#483

Post by kalleboo »

danbolt wrote: post #24

I can’t speak for other people, but I feel like my life is a revolving cocktail of USB Type-A, Type-B, Micro, and Type-C. I can’t just cut and re-crimp my old 2001 Sony Memory Stick USB adapter (which still has drivers available for Linux) to support USB-C. One thing that stuck out to me about the article is that the author didn’t talk much about their use cases with USB.

> I can’t just cut and re-crimp my old 2001 Sony Memory Stick USB adapter (which still has drivers available for Linux) to support USB-C

Yeah but you can put a $2 USB A-C adapter plug on the end of it and just leave it there

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#484

Post by wannacboatmovie »

onion2k wrote: post #280
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think these numbers are fabricated horseshit, drafted by some engineer behind a desk running endless simulations. The USB industrial complex made the same claims with micro-USB vs mini-USB; and are now doing it again with Type-C. My empirical evidence: I've now had to replace two laptop motherboards due to a (mechanically) failed USB-C port. Guess what I haven't had to do in 25 years? Replace a failed US…

Guess what I haven't had to do in 25 years? Replace a failed USB-A socket. Ever. USB-A connectors are robust enough that you can't really pull them out by the cable. You have to pull the connector, which means you always pull them straight out. USB-C cables are smaller so some people yank the wire part of the cable instead of the connector, leading to a shearing force on the socket, which breaks it over time. Broken…

The shearing force is often done by the cable itself, with gravity doing the work. Some USB-C cables are so thick and connector so large to support the heavy shielded cable, that it's bent at an angle when plugged in.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#485

Post by necovek »

aifooh7Keew6xoo wrote: post #422
necovek wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about bandwidth? There are 10Gbps, 20Gbps and 40Gbps cables, along with "wattage" (really, amperage/current). Both will continue to go up.

It's worth noting I suppose that newer USB power delivery standards are scaling voltage rather than amperage/current to deliver more power to the device. The pins are specified for 1.25A each yielding 5A and I believe the 5A cable specification came at the same time as 20V with the 100W power delivery specification. Every power increment since then has been a voltage rather than current increment.

Good point, I was aware that newer USB-C PD standard offers bigger power delivery (up to 240W, I think), but I didn't know it was achieved through increased voltage.

That means it goes up to 48V DC, so that's certainly curious, thanks!

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#486

Post by herbst »

reportingsjr wrote: post #365
herbst wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My laptop has a opinion which side is up on usb c and doesn't connect the other way around (the way docking stations use) I basically have to replace my laptop to use my docking station just because usb c isn't sturdy enough :/

Did the USB C port ever work that way? Extra electronics are needed to support being able to flip the high speed connects like that. Maybe the laptop never had that?

I bought it used and only realized it later, but yes it's supposed to work on both sides.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#487

Post by atoav »

mavamaarten wrote: post #347
atoav wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the goto electronics guy I have swen broken USB A but not broken USB-C (yet). USB-C is sturdy, the weakness is either going to be the cable or the bonding of the copper with the PCB. Both is basically a matter of go much money the manufacturers are willing to spend.

My experiences differ. I've had plenty of USB-C devices of which the port becomes very loose after a while of normal use. I'm glad my current phone has wireless charging, not because of its convenience but because that way I don't wear out the USB-C port. USB-A is so simple, two holes and some leaf springs make for a satisfying clunk that doesn't wear out so quickly.

My experience was that most of the time it was the cable, followed by dirt in the port.

Now PCB quality can also wildly differ and the bonding between substrate and pads can be a weak point if the manufacturer of the device went for the cheapest possible PCB. But for that you have through-hole USB-C connectors and cables that should break before the connector.

So if your USB-C connector breaks off the PCB that is on the manufacturer of the device.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#489

Post by arghwhat »

nickpeterson wrote: post #372
arghwhat wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you say that, I can tell from family experience that USB type A ports are quite fragile to a vertical tug as it breaks the internal plastic bar at its base so you're left with a hole full of floating copper pins. It of course requires more than a light tug, but less than you'd think. The USB-C housing is much more rigid than that of type A, so it should handle this much better. The thinner bar might also handle…

I really wish we’d end up with something like the old MagSafe.

MagSafe was quite bad tbh. Exposed contacts that easily get contaminated and magnets attracting nearby particles to degrade the connection. At the same time, the disconnect force in the vertical direction is far too small (place the laptop on something soft and the connector tilts), and in the horizontal and perpendicular directions high enough to still yank the laptop.

I do not know if the new MagSafe is an improvement over V1 and v2, but solid connections or non-contact charging are the way to go.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#490

Post by jen20 »

kalleboo wrote: post #481
meepmorp wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen something that plugs into type C and it's not either a phone charger or a type A adapter. By way of comparison, my experience is basically the opposite. Most of USB devices I have attached to my computers are USB-C - my keyboard, local backup disks and non-perf critical mass storage, my yubikeys, one of my monitors, network dongles. Most of the USB-A things I ha…

> I had a bunch of perfectly serviceable USB-A to lightning cables to discard Can't you just give them to the person who is inheriting/buying your previous phone?

The word “discard” does not preclude what you suggested.
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