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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#201

Post by arcticbull »

hurryer wrote: post #199
arcticbull wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, they're specced the opposite way. > Standard USB has a minimum rated lifetime of 1,500 cycles of insertion and removal, the Mini-USB receptacle increased this to 5,000 cycles, and the newer Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. [1] > To accomplish this, a locking device was added and the leaf-spring was moved fro…

Minimum is just that, minimum. Have you ever seen a broken standard USB port or connector? Me not once in my entire life, unlike micro-USB or USB-C.

I surely have. Any even semi-public USB power socket is hanging on by a thread, some of them have the inside paddles snapped off entirely. I haven't seen a Type C one in such a state yet, but I eagerly await it.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#204

Post by dagmx »

userbinator wrote: post #166
at_a_remove wrote: post #88

PS/2 connectors lived on motherboards for a very very long time after mice and keyboards went to USB.

PS/2 ports are still there on high-end and "gamer" mobos. This is also related to the fact that a lot of high-end keyboards/mouses are also PS/2. They don't cost more than USB, are simpler in many ways, and if the mobo has dedicated ports for them, I think it make sense to plug the keyboard and mouse there to free up USB ports for other peripherals that are almost exclusively USB.

There’s also the matter of PS/2 interruption vs USB. I don’t believe it truly matters much anymore but there were distinct advantages of PS/2

The link below has several outlined though I can’t speak to their veracity or relevance anymore

https://superuser.com/questions/341215/is-there-a-distinct-a...

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#205

Post by [deleted] »

stephenr wrote: post #180
gattis wrote: post #79

any device that doesnt need a 20gbps or higher link is better off connected to your motherboard via a usb-a to usb-c cable. the "a" connector has not been deprecated. in some ways it is the superior connector, higher mating cycles, less fragile, less likely to get ripped loose, much more torque required to bend, and so on. the "c" connector is more useful on the opposite end where you will be plugging in and out more…

> the "a" connector has not been deprecated I mean... usb 4 literally doesn't define a type-a connector (or type-b). Usb3.2 is the "best" a usb-a port is ever going to deliver. So while it may still be popular and in-use, from the view of usb as a standard, it is deprecated: it's not present in the latest version.

[deleted]

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#206

Post by MR4D »

aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

> I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy.

So let’s see . . . I have the following in my house, most are at least 2 years old and all are USB-C :

MacBook Air

MX3 mouse

Keychron keyboard

iPhone 15

iPad Air

Xbox controllers (several)

LG 4K monitor

Racer Headphones

Rode VideoMic Go II

Pebble V2 speakers

GoPro 11

Chromebook laptop

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#207

Post by wannacboatmovie »

arcticbull wrote: post #176
userbinator wrote: post #154

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

Interestingly enough, they're specced the opposite way. > Standard USB has a minimum rated lifetime of 1,500 cycles of insertion and removal, the Mini-USB receptacle increased this to 5,000 cycles, and the newer Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. [1] > To accomplish this, a locking device was added and the leaf-spring was moved fro…

Personally I think these numbers are fabricated horseshit, drafted by some engineer behind a desk running endless simulations.

The USB industrial complex made the same claims with micro-USB vs mini-USB; and are now doing it again with Type-C.

My empirical evidence: I've now had to replace two laptop motherboards due to a (mechanically) failed USB-C port.

Guess what I haven't had to do in 25 years? Replace a failed USB-A socket. Ever.

USB-C connectors are fragile and companies are making more and more large, heavy cables with huge connectors especially common with Thunderbolt or port replicator-type devices. It is a recipe for disaster and they expect us to fall for this USB Jedi Mind Trick again.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#208

Post by kayfox »

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #207
arcticbull wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, they're specced the opposite way. > Standard USB has a minimum rated lifetime of 1,500 cycles of insertion and removal, the Mini-USB receptacle increased this to 5,000 cycles, and the newer Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. [1] > To accomplish this, a locking device was added and the leaf-spring was moved fro…

Personally I think these numbers are fabricated horseshit, drafted by some engineer behind a desk running endless simulations. The USB industrial complex made the same claims with micro-USB vs mini-USB; and are now doing it again with Type-C. My empirical evidence: I've now had to replace two laptop motherboards due to a (mechanically) failed USB-C port. Guess what I haven't had to do in 25 years? Replace a failed US…

The connector lifetimes are tested by some manufacturers. When I was working on USB (electrical) testing at Microsoft we had test jigs for testing connectors to failure and I can vouch for Microsoft's connectors having lifetimes exceeding 25,000 insertions.

We would also test how many miles a mouse would travel before the glides would wear out.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#209

Post by causi »

arcticbull wrote: post #176
userbinator wrote: post #154

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

Interestingly enough, they're specced the opposite way. > Standard USB has a minimum rated lifetime of 1,500 cycles of insertion and removal, the Mini-USB receptacle increased this to 5,000 cycles, and the newer Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. [1] > To accomplish this, a locking device was added and the leaf-spring was moved fro…

Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000

The idea that micro-USB and USB-C are supposed to be equally durable is the wrongest thing I've read all day. Frankly, mini-USB is the single most delicate connector I've ever used. Other than a couple PDAs, I never owned a single mini-USB device those receptacle didn't end up breaking off the board.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#210

Post by hurryer »

userbinator wrote: post #166
at_a_remove wrote: post #88

PS/2 connectors lived on motherboards for a very very long time after mice and keyboards went to USB.

PS/2 ports are still there on high-end and "gamer" mobos. This is also related to the fact that a lot of high-end keyboards/mouses are also PS/2. They don't cost more than USB, are simpler in many ways, and if the mobo has dedicated ports for them, I think it make sense to plug the keyboard and mouse there to free up USB ports for other peripherals that are almost exclusively USB.

You can actually damage the port if you unplug a PS/2 connector while power is on. Happened to me.
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