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OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

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Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#401

Post by robrenaud »

mlyle wrote: post #382
zug_zug wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should define it, sure. Here's what I'd expect this means: - Not limiting access to a universally profitable technology by making it only accessible to highest bidder (e.g. hire our virtual assistants for 30k a year). - Making models with a mind to all threats (existential, job replacement, scam uses) - Potentially open-sourcing models that are deemed safe So far I genuinely believe they are doing the first two…

If they jack the prices, they leave too wide a door for other entrants. Right now, OpenAI mostly has a big cost advantage; fully exploiting that requires lower pricing and high volume.

From my time working on search related problems at Google, this might be a bit of a winner take most market. If you have the users, your system can more effectively learn how to do a better job for the users. The interaction data generated is excludable gold, merely knowing how 100s of millions use chat bots is incredibly powerful, and if the company keeps being the clear and well known best, it's easy to stay the best, because the learning system has more high quality things to learn from.

While google did do a good job milking knowledge and improving from its queries and interaction data, openai surely knows how to get information from high quality textual data even better.

Openai made an interface where you can just speak your natural language, it didn't make you learn it's own pool of keyword jargon bastardized quasi command language. It's way more natural.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#402

Post by sensanaty »

TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #353
sensanaty wrote: post #336

Why are people suddenly jacking Altman off so hard? What has this non-technical dude done other than trying to corner the AI market for himself and implementing insane bullshit like worldcoin for him to deserve such weird devotion?

I always figured it’s because HN is run by Y Combinator, a technology startup accelerator, so inevitably many of the folks here will be more pro entrepreneurship than non-profit.

I've always viewed it as more of a hacker's hangout with the unfortunate side-effect of being YC-sponsored being that you sometimes have to put up with some dumb corporate news here and there, but it seems to be going in a slightly different direction for a while now (or more likely I was just always wrong on this one :P).

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#403

Post by TheCondor »

thepasswordis wrote: post #123
mrtksn wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, it’s very unclear who operates under what motives. How much is it about ego? How much is it about money and how much is it due to intellectual positions? Maybe there’re are no heroes and maybe there’re no antiheroes? With the recent news about other investments and deals, the facade doesn’t seem to even resemble the OpenAI’s reality. I can’t wait to read the autobiography of involved parties.

>Ego I can absolutely empathize with Ilya here, though. As far as I know the tech making openai function is largely his life’s work. It would be extremely frustrating to have Sam be the face of it, and be given the credit for it. Sam is clearly a very accomplished businessman and networker. Those people are super important, I wish I had a person like him on my team. I’ve had the experience of other people tacitly tak…

A LOT of people have put a ton of energy in to OpenAI, and a lot have put A LOT of money into it. If it was as petty as credit, then screw them all as they just don’t get it. It’s all on the shoulders of others too….

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#404

Post by junofan »

ekosz wrote: post #351
dimask wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is toatlly irrelevant to the board's initial decision though.

I think what people in this thread and others are trying to say is that to run a organization like OpenAI you need lots and lots funding. AI research is incredibly costly due to highly paid researchers and an ungodly amount of GPU resources. To put all current funding at risk by pissing off current investors and enterprise customers puts the whole mission of the organization at risk. That's where the perceived incomp…

Exactly. Add to that the personal smearing of one person and it seems like a very unnecessarily negative maneuver.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#405

Post by sensanaty »

agnosticmantis wrote: post #394

Many are speculating that Sam Altman could just move on and create another OpenAI 2.0 because he could easily attract talent and investors. What this misses is all the regulatory capture that he’s been campaigning for. All the platforms have now closed their gardens. Authors and artists are much more vigilant about copyright etc. So it’s now a totally different game compared to 3 years ago because the data is not jus…

I've never considered this angle, but god it'd be hilarious if this ended up being the case, the dude ruining everything because of his own greed ultimately fucking himself over because of it.

Here's to hoping there's still some poetic irony left to dish out in the world.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#406

Post by junofan »

dimask wrote: post #317
cyanydeez wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they likely could have negotiated it better, but I agree, all these Altman fans really suggest the cult of business sapping any nonprofit motive.

It is hard to negotiate when the investors and for-profit part basically has much more power. They tried to bring them in front of a fait accompli situation, as this was their only chance, but they seem to have failed. I do not think they had a better move in the current situation right now, sadly.

Why’d they smear Sam? Couldn’t they have released a statement saying they just don’t see eye to eye anymore?

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#407

Post by treesciencebot »

agnosticmantis wrote: post #394

Many are speculating that Sam Altman could just move on and create another OpenAI 2.0 because he could easily attract talent and investors. What this misses is all the regulatory capture that he’s been campaigning for. All the platforms have now closed their gardens. Authors and artists are much more vigilant about copyright etc. So it’s now a totally different game compared to 3 years ago because the data is not jus…

"Why Sam Altman (who can have the funding, talent, and the vision OpenAI has right now) can't just create OpenAI 2.0?" is an amazing question that also answers whats OpenAI's moat.

People speculated it was the funding, or attracting talent or having "access". Turns out it was none of them (obviously they all have a part, but having all three doesn't mean you can best OpenAI which gives you the fundemental reason why it is so hard to compete with them).

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#408

Post by paulddraper »

sensanaty wrote: post #361
paulddraper wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um...what He's secured the resources and partnerships to grow a $100B company virtually overnight, but he hasn't done anything noteworthy or laudible? HN takes are the best. Humor really is the best medicine.

So the dude with a billion connections managed to use them to get cash for the startup that deals with the most insanely overhyped piece of technology to have ever been created. No mention of the people actually responsible for any of this? Y'know, the scientists and engineers that actually had to do something to create the crazy technology he's taking credit for, the noteworthy dude is the generic MBA C-suite type t…

> the dude with a billion connections managed to use them to get cash for the startup

Yes, exactly.

Strong qualifications, strong execution, strong results

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#409

Post by null0pointer »

fidotron wrote: post #169
shrimpx wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He is instrumental in the research but he shouldn't be running the business. To push back on this a bit. If two yet unknown people, "an Altman" and "an Ilya", both applied to YC to start a company that builds and sells AI models, guess who would get funded. Not the guy who can't build AI models. I find it bizarre that the guy who can build is suddenly the villain-nerd who can't be trusted, and the salesman is the h…

There has been a huge cultural shift in tech towards devaluing builders and (excessively) emphasising the roles of operations and sales. In reality you need all of them, and they are all separate talents, but things are clearly unbalanced.

Right, I’ve noticed this trend too. It sucks and I find myself frustrated by how easily people go along with smooth talking sales/business types and allow them to take over positions of power. The truth is that builders can exist and build amazing products without the sales guys, but the sales guys would have absolutely nothing without the builders. I’d even go a step further and say that the best products are built by solo or small teams of impassioned builders and as soon as sales/business types get involved things start tending towards enshittification.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#410

Post by yterdy »

jasonhansel wrote: post #173

This is why, when you claim to be running a non-profit to "benefit humankind," you shouldn't put all your resources into a for-profit subsidiary. Eventually, the for-profit arm, and its investors, will find its nonprofit parent a hindrance, and an insular board of directors won't stand a chance against corporate titans.

I've yet to hear what, exactly, underlies the sneering smugness over the notion that the board is going to get their asses handed to them. AFAICT, you have a non-profit with the power to do what they want, in this case, and "corporate titans" doing the "cornered cat" thing.
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