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OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

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Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#331

Post by junofan »

lucubratory wrote: post #187
foobarqux wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other question is what happens to the pretense of "safety". The CEO explicitly said multiple times that he does not have unilateral control, that he is subordinate to the board and that the board's job was to remove him if it he was pursuing an unsafe course. Assuming he gets re-instated that would all be shown to be false.

Yeah, a $2.8Tn tech company and a venture capitalist's network managing to overturn the non-profit Board's completely legal action (legally required of the Board, even) they took in furtherance of their Charter would be the ultimate practical demonstration that no legal structure, not even those specifically designed to do so, is above what capital wants. It's their world, we're just living in it, and they want to ma…

You have evidence Sam lied, like their statement implies? How do you know the action was in furtherance of their charter instead of over petty grievances?

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#332

Post by yeck »

Aeolun wrote: post #304

At the risk of being off topic (well, definitely): > in a post on X, formerly Twitter It keep surprising me that someone can so completely torpedo their brand that news organisations feel compelled to keep referring to the old name so people have some idea of what they’re talking about.

Hah, yes. I chuckle to myself every time.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#333

Post by m3kw9 »

jasonhansel wrote: post #173

This is why, when you claim to be running a non-profit to "benefit humankind," you shouldn't put all your resources into a for-profit subsidiary. Eventually, the for-profit arm, and its investors, will find its nonprofit parent a hindrance, and an insular board of directors won't stand a chance against corporate titans.

They quickly realize without money you really can’t do as much.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#334

Post by Aeolun »

croes wrote: post #264
richardw wrote: post #204

The main question at this point should be whether Sam's model or Ilya's model is more likely to succeed in the primary goal of the teams, which is (and should be): how do we stay on the leading edge long enough to figure out safety. All the adults in the room want safety [1], it's just how to really get it. There are very wealthy competitors out there, any of which could end up beating OpenAI if they get half an edge…

>Everyone who can sign a check is dying to get in on this. All the smart talent in the world would love to be employee number 1 through 1000. That's sound like the riad to disaster. People who can sign a check and are dying to get in on this, usually lack any moral or ethics. Not a smart move to work for those people just because you fell for a clever salesman.

The alternative is to work for poor idealists, which isn’t generally very good for putting bread on the table.

Something tells me most people are going to go for fucktons of money and working on what they think is interesting. Even if it makes other people even more money.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#335

Post by TerrifiedMouse »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #249
jasonhansel wrote: post #173

This is why, when you claim to be running a non-profit to "benefit humankind," you shouldn't put all your resources into a for-profit subsidiary. Eventually, the for-profit arm, and its investors, will find its nonprofit parent a hindrance, and an insular board of directors won't stand a chance against corporate titans.

The problem, though, is without the huge commercial and societal success of ChatGPT, the AI Safety camp had no real leverage over the direction of AI advancement worldwide. I mean, there are tons of think tanks, advocacy organizations, etc. that write lots of AI safety papers that nobody reads. I'm kind of piqued at the OpenAI board not because I think they had the wrong intentions, but because they failed to see tha…

Better to have a small but independent voice that can grow in influence then being shackled by commercial interest and lose your integrity - e.g. How many people actually gives a shit what Google has to say about internet governance?

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#337

Post by tstrimple »

sensanaty wrote: post #336

Why are people suddenly jacking Altman off so hard? What has this non-technical dude done other than trying to corner the AI market for himself and implementing insane bullshit like worldcoin for him to deserve such weird devotion?

I think the challenge here is the credentials of most of the rest of the board are even more lackluster.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#338

Post by insanitybit »

silenced_trope wrote: post #330
jasonhansel wrote: post #173

This is why, when you claim to be running a non-profit to "benefit humankind," you shouldn't put all your resources into a for-profit subsidiary. Eventually, the for-profit arm, and its investors, will find its nonprofit parent a hindrance, and an insular board of directors won't stand a chance against corporate titans.

> This is why, when you claim to be running a non-profit to "benefit humankind," you shouldn't put all your resources into a for-profit subsidiary. To be frank, they need to really spell out what "benefitting mankind" is. How is it measured? Or is it measured? Or is it just "the board says this isn't doing that so it's not doing that"? It's honestly a silly slogan.

> "the board says this isn't doing that so it's not doing that"?

I believe that is indeed the case, it is the responsibility of the board to make that call.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#339

Post by Karrot_Kream »

keerthiko wrote: post #282
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem, though, is without the huge commercial and societal success of ChatGPT, the AI Safety camp had no real leverage over the direction of AI advancement worldwide. I mean, there are tons of think tanks, advocacy organizations, etc. that write lots of AI safety papers that nobody reads. I'm kind of piqued at the OpenAI board not because I think they had the wrong intentions, but because they failed to see tha…

I agree. I think a significantly better approach would have been to vote for the elaboration of a "checks and balances" structure to OpenAI as it grew in capabilities and influence. Internal to the entire OpenAI org, sounds like all we had was just the for-profit arm board of directors. Externally, you can add investors and public opinion (basically defaults to siding with the for-profit arm). I wish they worked towa…

I like this idea, but I'm not sure if "democracy" is the word you're looking for. There's plenty of functioning bureaucracies in everything from monarchies to communist states that balance competing interests. As you say, a system of checks and balances balancing the interests of the for-profit and non-profit arms could have been a lot more interesting. Though honestly I don't have enough business experience to know if this kind of thing would be at all viable.

Re: OpenAI negotiations to reinstate Altman hit snag over board role

#340

Post by s1artibartfast »

jasonhansel wrote: post #173

This is why, when you claim to be running a non-profit to "benefit humankind," you shouldn't put all your resources into a for-profit subsidiary. Eventually, the for-profit arm, and its investors, will find its nonprofit parent a hindrance, and an insular board of directors won't stand a chance against corporate titans.

It is also why dont bring on board members you cant trust. I doubt getting ousted was what Sam, Greg, and Elon had in mind when they picked it.
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