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Gang crisis shaking Sweden

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Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#261
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have zero worries about my safety. Ah nice. I guess there's no problem then.

There's relatively no problem. The hamburger and beer was worse for my health than the gangs. And it looks like tomorrow will be my first walk through snow for the season, so I'd better be cautious with that.

I beg to differ.

Relatively for Sweden, there is a problem. But because you have not experienced it, you see no problem.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sort of posts invite this sort of people. And if you look at many of those posting they are either very recently created accounts or rarely contribute.

I looked at a bunch and found many of them were established HN users with four-digit karma.

Yes because many is not the same as all.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Can you show me a christian one? A liberal democracy without horrors of genocide and colonialism in its past? If we're meant to respect europeans despite their atrocities you must return the favor.

Technically, there’s no “Christian country” in this era because the religion adheres to separation of church and state, unlike Islam where we can find many theocracies.

But, to call a list of successful democracies where the majority identify as Christians of some sort and without colonialism in its past;

Norway

Switzerland

Denmark

Liechtenstein

Oh, Sweden too.

And it’s funny why you specifically mentioned without past colonialism and genocide, because many Muslim countries score high in this sector too.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#264

Shootings occur in all kinds of areas in the major cities, but also in smaller towns. Sweden has also had a worrying number of bombs outside stairwells in residential areas and in detached houses. Therefore, the problems are not only concentrated in marginalized areas or what the Swedish Police call, particularly vulnerable areas. Per capita, Sweden has twice as many gang members as Mexico but you can hardly compare…

Very comparable in the Netherlands, fortunately for now still limited to the larger cities but it is also slowly spreading out from there. Most of this is drug related.

> Most of this is drug related.

Perhaps, but we need to be careful what conclusions (and reactions) we take from that.

People from all walks of life make regular usage of recreational intoxicants, often perfectly legally. Huge, legitimate global industries are dedicated to it. If that association were the primary basis upon which to categorise as a gang, or as morally corrupt, then the Champagne region of France, and the Coca-Cola Corp (associate and maker of many an alcoholic beverage, among their giant stable of products), would be among the world's biggest "gangs". And yes, in some ways they are! but that's another matter.

So, despite the common 'drug' associations of gangs, the unique commonalities which define criminal gangs lie elsewhere, and thus a primary focus upon intoxicants, when attempting to address gang criminality - such as the longterm ineffective War-on-Drugs rhetoric - is doomed to failure, as the proof of reality shows.

Magically take away all drugs and alcohol overnight, and we'd still have a disenfranchised minority social underbelly, realising their discontent in all-new and equally potentially harmful ways.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#265
post #182

> Those on the right largely blame immigration, which has added 2mn people to the country in recent decades. Those on the left point to social factors, including the privatisation of Sweden’s welfare system which has led to worse services in deprived areas. Probably both things are true. When countries take in large amounts of immigration, their generous welfare systems can become stressed. Sweden didn't balance the…

I thought that I play with is that the internet is also partially to blame – hear me out. In pre-internet times, immigrants faced the prospect of limited social contact unless they integrated with their communities. Alternatives to this was the formation of a cultural community such as a "little italy", "china town", or even a ghetto. However integration on some level would still be needed. It's logical to believe th…

There is definitely something to your idea. I have moved countries a couple of times in recent years and found that I get fewer opportunities to use the local language than in past moves, simply because a lot of face-to-face interaction has been replaced with online interfaces (the bank, state offices) or automated kiosks. And I am the motivated, educated immigrant with plenty of time to spare who wants to learn the language and absorb all the idioms and local culture references expressed in it.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#266

[flagged]

Yes, because it is well know that Mohammad urged Muslims to create criminal gangs and start dealing drugs... Sorry, but what sort of stupid nonsense worldview do you have? There are certainly immigrants with non-western values and also immigrants who are criminals but why are you mixing these two demographics together? If anything the ones dealing drugs are likely to be the most westernized.

If you are asking for examples of brutal acts performed or ordered by Muhammed, here is a long list [0]. Most notable to me is the murder of 600-900 captive non-combatants. This is referred to as the massacre of the Banu Qurayza (woman and children then made slaves).

I suppose you brought up Muhammed on the basis that his venerated status in Islam enables us to significantly extrapolate Muslim culture from his own personal culture. I will therefore state that the evidence of Quran/Hadiths yield evidence of great brutality in the person of Muhammed, which therefore may inspire brutality and violence in any devout followers of his, or in the broader Islamic culture. This is certainly conducive "creating criminal gangs".

[0] https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Killings_Ordered_or_Suppo...

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's largely the result of an ideological deadlock, where legitimate logistical concerns about immigration and integration were lumped up with islamophobia and racism. Immigration was also seen as desirable in order to address the demographic crisis and low birth rates. This in turn had the ironic side-effect of cementing a sort of structural racism where all these immigrants showed up and were given at best estate h…

This needs to be upvoted. This is exactly what I've noticed across Europe. It feels like there's a glass ceiling outside of the arts and maybe politics. It doesn't feel like there are role models there like Satya Nadella, Jerry Yang, Alex Padilla, or Obama.

I don't think the issue is so much about skin color, as it is about language proficiency and integration. If you aren't fluent in Swedish or very proficient in western-style English, you have a significant uphill battle in terms of career and life prospects.

You have Iranians and Syrians and what have you in all manner of well paying jobs. But there is really no plausible path from refugee to those types of jobs.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#268
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needs to be upvoted. This is exactly what I've noticed across Europe. It feels like there's a glass ceiling outside of the arts and maybe politics. It doesn't feel like there are role models there like Satya Nadella, Jerry Yang, Alex Padilla, or Obama.

Have you looked at various leaders in places like France, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany?!?

Europe in general is the backup plan for most immigrants. Our parents preferred immigrating to US, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand instead. You only ended up in Europe if you couldn't end up in those 4.

Netherlands and the UK have only started to change in the past 5-10 years.

Aside from politics, British Asians honestly aren't that notable in the business space. Most British Asian billionaires tend to be Indian and Pakistani oligarchs to took British citizenship (eg. Hinduja). The British Asian community always felt pretty dislocated and isolated compared to those of us in the US+Canada, despite us being a newer community in North America.

In Netherlands, similar story, though there has been a recent increase in white collar Asian immigration after the US Visa regime became much more backlogged.

Can't speak for the Arab+Turkish community in France and Germany, but I had a Tunisian coworker who made a point of how he preferred being in the US over France or Belgium. And on the German side, it's the backup plan for most immigrants as well. I can't think of a notable Turkish German or Arab German role model outside of arts and politics except for the COVID Vaccine guy, and that was very recent.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#269
post #134
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That charts paints a rather skewed picture by only focusing on firearms rather than murder overall. This is not a bad thing to highlight, but you should absolutely not confuse the two. Looking at [1], murder rate in Slovakia is comparable, and Hungary only slightly lower. Sweden isn't even near the top murder rate in the EU, and a number of other countries which accepted a large number of refugees have lower murder r…

That chart is using data from 2021, while the gang crisis in Sweden began escalating in 2022.

According to [1] it hasn't changed much in 2022. 2023 isn't finished yet, so I don't know about that.

And my main point was that "gun violence" showing near zero for some countries shouldn't absolutely not be taken as "near zero crime" or "near zero homicide".

[1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/533917/sweden-number-of-...

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#270

[flagged]

Yes, because it is well know that Mohammad urged Muslims to create criminal gangs and start dealing drugs... Sorry, but what sort of stupid nonsense worldview do you have? There are certainly immigrants with non-western values and also immigrants who are criminals but why are you mixing these two demographics together? If anything the ones dealing drugs are likely to be the most westernized.

Didn't Mohammad create laws in the Quran specifically to allow his criminal gangs to attack merchant caravans?
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