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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#151

Post by lxgr »

amelius wrote: post #106
lxgr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB does use error detection (CRC), but if you transfer enough data over anything, you'll eventually see undetected errors.

If this is true, then the MTBF design parameter is unacceptably low.

USB does have a specified maximum bit error rate, and presumably the CRC length is tuned accordingly.

What it probably does not have is a detectable error counter that marks a link as broken (e.g. in case of a bad/damaged cable, plug or controller) before the chance of an undetected error becomes unacceptably large, although it seems like a host would be able to implement that as an optional feature?

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#152

Post by wilsonnb3 »

dbtc wrote: post #150
mjevans wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to buy a mobile phone without one. Just not happening.

What phone would you buy right now if needed one?

Asus and Sony are still holdouts in the premium price range, Motorola and OnePlus in the budget range, and also a number of Chinese manufacturers I think

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#153

Post by lxgr »

TylerE wrote: post #124
lxgr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I look at USB-C plugs and US power outlets and wonder if there’s a shock hazard there…

Would need a complete circuit. So unless you’re sticking in both ends of one cable to the same outlet…

Depending on how well you're grounded, you might just be the component that completes the circuit...

As far as I understand, not all US power outlets have a residual current device.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#154

Post by userbinator »

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#155

Post by davegirdy2 »

pynappo wrote: post #20
fnordpiglet wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every device I’ve bought in 2023 is usb-c now, even low end stuff, and keyboards and mice. By 2025 I’d expect it’ll be rare and unusual to see a micro port on any new device. USB A is definitely legacy.

i think the GP was talking about wired peripherals that plug into usb-a ports on the computer side, not wireless mice/keyboards which use usb-c to charge my current wireless mouse/wired keyboard have usb-c on the peripheral end but I still use usb-a to connect them to the computer

I'm still confused with the term GP. Shouldn't it be OP?

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#156

Post by lxgr »

TylerE wrote: post #132
lxgr wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very good point. It doesn’t stop some manufacturers from still shipping the “forbidden” adapter type for just that use case, though. I prefer USB-A for FIDO authenticators for that reason (and because the plug is more robust for USB-A and basically indestructible; C plugs can and do get bent on a keychain).

I have yet to see a bent usb c (not saying it couldn’t happen, but… It’s have seen multiple crushed USB A connectors.

Ah, I should have been more precise: The (technically out of spec) "half-A" plug used by e.g. Yubikeys and some low-profile USB drives seems near indestructible to me. Regular A plugs can definitely be crushed.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#157

Post by Dylan16807 »

p1mrx wrote: post #87
crote wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motherboard vendors don't need to deal with PD and DisplayPort. USB-C will work just fine without them - it'll just behave like any regular old USB port.

USB-C is like a regular old USB port, with twice the data lanes (or a mux[1]) and a transistor to turn on the power when requested. In other words, it costs more. [1] https://richardg867.wordpress.com/2020/02/29/usb-c-done-chea...

On the scale of a motherboard, those things are cheap and provide more value than half the marketing bullet points.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#158

Post by lxgr »

gattis wrote: post #144
gattis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

manufacturer's compliance with the specification has always been a total joke heh. i see what you're saying about the springs, but i shouldn't have brought mating cycles into the discussion. the side plugged into the motherboard should just be secure above all else. i can easily ruin any usb-c connector with just my thumb and index finger. the thickness of the A shell and its square profile prevent it from bending un…

furthermore, ive never even seen a usb-c connector at an airport or for any public use and i doubt i ever will. hell, even IEC can barely withstand that use case,i usually have to bend my prongs for the plug to stay in. usb-c not gonna make it 3 days.

I've seen a few already, both in airports and elsewhere (e.g. in rental cars and I believe even in an airplane once).

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#159

Post by userbinator »

korginator wrote: post #30
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

USB-C is simply more convenient to use, and you get it right 100% of the time, instead of your orientation being wrong 50% of the time with USB-A.

Note that reversible A plugs exist.

https://www.pcgamer.com/youre-telling-me-we-could-have-had-r...

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#160

Post by cwbriscoe »

aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

Both my wireless keyboard and mouse are USB-C. I use the C connection for charging them.
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