USB-B is also alive and well in areas like audio production.
Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
101–110 of 511 posts
Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
#102I just want at least 1 of both. For at least the next 10 years. I will still have USB-A peripherals I use daily to weekly until then. I would've paid $100+ extra for a USB-A port on this macbook.
Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
#103I might be the minority here but I prefer USB-A. The connector feels more robust and I don't worry about damaging it. My keyboard, mouse, webcam, flash drives, etc. all use USB-A. A disadvantage of USB-C is that lint can get in the port and prevent a proper connection (this happens on my phone all the time). I believe that USB-A will be with us for a long time; the wisest thing at this point is to make sure that the…
I have mixed feelings about it. Technologically I definitely prefer USB-C, and the "reversible cable" and "plug fits either way" parts are really neat. However, they do indeed feel quite a lot more fragile. USB-A is an absolute tank , and I regularly just haphazardly plug it in without paying much attention to it, knowing that I'm not going to damage it. With USB-C I'm always a bit careful about not putting too much…
> With USB-A, I pretty much expect to break the cable first.
It might seem that way, but the port supposedly breaks more easily than the cable in USB-A, since the A port contains springs (which will eventually get worn out and can be bent).
Anecdotally, I've seen tons of broken A ports with exactly that failure in airplanes, buses, and other places with public USB charging ports that people don't treat particularly nicely.
The leverage of C plugs does seem scary, but I have yet to encounter a broken port – fingers crossed!
Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
#104calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…
Weirdly, the port on a cheap mechanical keyboard I have is USB-C but the cable they packaged is USB-C -> USB-A instead. They likely didn't package C->C because of the chicken and egg problem. Not everyone has enough Type-C ports.
Same. Keyboard and mouse
Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug.. I can confirm, it's a journey. It's the same kind of journey than finding a hair trimmer that charges on USB C. I see it more as makers being complacent and not giving a fuck though. There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. So yes USB A will be there for a while, and more often than n…
> There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. There's a good technical reason for keyboards and mice to still be USB A: adapters from USB A socket to USB C plug are allowed by the standard, but adapters from USB C socket to USB A plug are forbidden (because they would, together with a common USB C cable, allow creating the forbidden USB A to USB A cable). This means that USB A k…
A C-to-A adapter came with my laptop dock, but I have never thought of this
Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
#106No matter what devices I use, USB seems to give me a bit error every few terabytes or so, over cheap cables >1ft. This makes me wonder: how do I find good (certified) cables, and why isn't there forward error correction in the USB protocol such that cheap cables simply work?
USB does use error detection (CRC), but if you transfer enough data over anything, you'll eventually see undetected errors.
If this is true, then the MTBF design parameter is unacceptably low.
Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
#107calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…
> I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug.. I can confirm, it's a journey. It's the same kind of journey than finding a hair trimmer that charges on USB C. I see it more as makers being complacent and not giving a fuck though. There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. So yes USB A will be there for a while, and more often than n…
At introduction there were billions of USB A peripherals and few users with USB C ports. The only sane thing for peripherals to do is ship USB A not wanting to cut out 99% of the market and the only sane thing given that for PCs to do is ship mostly USB A ports. So we start with an obvious optimal choice on all parties parts right now how do we break out of a trivial equilibrium into a mostly USB C universe?
If a PC ships with mostly USB C ports. Well since the majority of accessories are A users are going to be frustrated when they need adapters/a hub to plug in anything because they don't have enough of the ports accessories actually use.
If accessories shift first then users are going to be frustrated when they need adapters or a hub to have enough ports to plug in their accessories.
Remember that the average user keeps a computer for 6 years and they keep accessories longer often throwing things out when they literally stop working or can't be made to work with their new device.
Furthermore even a slight increase in costs is problematic when you margins are fairly razor thing. It's a really hard sell for anyone to move forward.
Apple has a substantial advantage here wherein they have enough good will from their users, enough margin, and enough sway to simply upgrade and tell their users to buy adapters while neither losing profit nor users.
That being said being A is hardly a middle finger for the vast majority of devices which need neither more power/more speed than usb 3.2 2x1 can provide as we are talking about 10Gbps and 15W. The most common accessories are mouse,keyboard,sound,cameras,small storage, less commonly network adapters
We haven't yet found a compelling case for a beefy connection but surely there is right.
High end video capture, high end storage, displays, hubs that serve many fast devices, 10Gbps Ethernet.
None as common as the previously listed and not fun to get working when not every port supports high power, higher speed, or optional features nor every cord. Using such features feels like the plug and pray of the early 90s whereas plugging in a DisplayPort monitor or a standard stereo jack speaker system is as boring as plugging in a toaster.
Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
#108Calm down bro, it's just another cable, it's not like your motherboard needs to switch between host and client.
Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
#109calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…
Weirdly, the port on a cheap mechanical keyboard I have is USB-C but the cable they packaged is USB-C -> USB-A instead. They likely didn't package C->C because of the chicken and egg problem. Not everyone has enough Type-C ports.
Type-C hubs are annoyingly expensive, because they all assume you want all the USB 3.x speed and/or power delivery bells and whistles - but for connecting simple peripherals none of that is necessary.
I built my own based on a USB 2.0 hub IC, but I never got around to publishing the design files. I should get on that!
Even building a single prototype unit cost me about the same as a single off-the-shelf type-C hub, but of course, building subsequent units would be substantially cheaper.
Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
perhaps. but thats why you have the C at the other end because it doesnt make sense to be frequently plugging things in and out of the motherboard and and wearing down those connectors. but i doubt you will get more cycles out of C in real life. that might be what the spec says but given the pitch of the pins on the C connector compared to the A, you have a world of greater tolerance to work with
If you don't frequently plug things into your mainboard, does it even matter? > but i doubt you will get more cycles out of C in real life You're free to doubt the designers of the USB specification and/or the manufacturer's compliance with the specification, but just logically, the part about having the springs in the plug, not the port, makes sense to me. I've seen many broken USB-A ports in airplanes and other pub…
manufacturer's compliance with the specification has always been a total joke heh. i see what you're saying about the springs, but i shouldn't have brought mating cycles into the discussion. the side plugged into the motherboard should just be secure above all else. i can easily ruin any usb-c connector with just my thumb and index finger. the thickness of the A shell and its square profile prevent it from bending under torque pretty darn well.